NO 24p in PAL HVX200

I wonder why people bicker so much about 24p missing in the PAL version. 25p is great. What REALLY makes me sad (or mad?) is the fact that the PAL version has no 60p for the 720 mode. The ONLY good thing about variable frame rate is getting great slo-mo's (who's interested in, let's say, 32p??? NO ONE!).

And they took 60p away from us PAL-landers. THAT REALLY ANNOYS ME. I'd probably get a BETTER slo-mo from a 60i competitor cam (where I have 120 fields from different time periods) and do some math.

This is NOT nice, Panasonic, (and TOTALLY senseless) and really is a big minus on MY personal list.
 
good point janbee!
if you use 60i with the canon, you will get 1440x540 resolution from every field. thats alot more horizontal res and the same vertical res, compared to the hvx.
with the upgrade, we get 24p/25p in pal land from the canon. there is also the ongoing noise discussion of the hvx.
i really hope that the pal hvx will be a major update from the ntsc one!
i would love to buy "the" hvx, which we all dreamed about 3 month ago, but what now has been delivered with the ntsc one(and with the pal framerates), is sadly a dissapointment in almost every way for me.
but hope dies last

bye
mas
 
JanBee said:
(who's interested in, let's say, 32p??? NO ONE!).
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Maybe you haven't shot a lot of music videos?
32fps is very handy to get motions softer and the band can usually sing and play that much faster.
 
mas said:
but hope dies last
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Very true :-) I'll wait and see! I have two more months before I need a cam and still haven't made up my mind. But right now... The H1 has a slight lead, I'm afraid.

toke lahti said:
Maybe you haven't shot a lot of music videos?
32fps is very handy
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Yeah, you're probably right! I don't shoot music videos, but you have a point.
 
In India(PAL COUNTRY) Panasonic got an NTSC model for the road show and I managed to shoot and get some footage. I am doing a film transfer of this footage to see the quality on screen and if the team is convinced I decided to go ahead and get one NTSC HVX200 for shooting a feature to be transfered to film.(Because our production is starting on April 1st week and Panasonic is just not commiting on the delivery date.They are even refusing to take booking) I think HVX200(NTSC) IS THE BEST CHOICE IF U WANT TO GO FOR THE FILM TRANSFER. Because

01. U can get a direct 24 fps ouot put. No sound track issues (beleave me I am going through hell explaining to the tchnitions like editors, sound guys, how to go about 25 to 24 conversion on a feature we shot with DVX100 at 25P.)

02. HVX200 resolution is going to be same for both PAL and NTSC model.

DISADVANTAGE OF BUYING AN NTSC MODEL IN PAL COUNTRY IS THAT we cannot play back the taapes in our players, it will have display problems in PAL TV sets etc.
Some one correct me if I am wrong. Because tomorrow is the decision making day for me after the screening of the footage I have shot.
 
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Pal countries have 50hz's lights, and NTSC countries 60hzs. While this shouldn't be much of a problem for 24p shooting (Just synchro scan to 50hzs), if you want to use the 60p functions of the camera, you can only use it with a shutter speed equal or above 100. What this means is lower light sensibility- not much, but noticeable. Also, any 60fps mode (1080i and 720p) will need a difficult conversion to 50fps. But this is not a problem if you are to go for film out or even 24/25p DVD.

Bottom line: There's no advantage to Get the Pal Camera for Film out and for 24p/25p shooting whatsoever. The only advantage you get is when you want to shoot to Video- News, Event coverage, Documentary and basic TV work.
 
Hvx For Film Transfer

Hvx For Film Transfer

While converting HVX footage to image sequence, I had a bit of problem getting the 24 frames out of 1080/60i, 1080/24p footages. It was the first time I am using FCP and I was little confused not knowing how to go about getting a 24fps image sequence. When I managed to get the clip on time line I just rendered it to image sequence. (The editor also didnt have any Idea. I guess it should be fairly simple to find out. But all the guys who saw the Images there at the editing place was really surprised. I just cant wait to see it on big screen!)

This image sequence i got was interlaced. I didnt know what went wrong on the export or project settings of FCP. These image seq. I loaded again in COMBUSTION de-interlaced and cropped it further for 2pix. aspect ratio of cinemascope projection which I send for film transfer. Does anyone know wether it can be done in FCP itself?
 
PC said:
While converting HVX footage to image sequence, I had a bit of problem getting the 24 frames out of 1080/60i, 1080/24p footages. It was the first time I am using FCP and I was little confused not knowing how to go about getting a 24fps image sequence. When I managed to get the clip on time line I just rendered it to image sequence. (The editor also didnt have any Idea. I guess it should be fairly simple to find out. But all the guys who saw the Images there at the editing place was really surprised. I just cant wait to see it on big screen!)

This image sequence i got was interlaced. I didnt know what went wrong on the export or project settings of FCP. These image seq. I loaded again in COMBUSTION de-interlaced and cropped it further for 2pix. aspect ratio of cinemascope projection which I send for film transfer. Does anyone know wether it can be done in FCP itself?
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You have to use cinematools to extract the frames. It comes in the FCP package.
 
PC said:
01. U can get a direct 24 fps ouot put. No sound track issues (beleave me I am going through hell explaining to the tchnitions like editors, sound guys, how to go about 25 to 24 conversion on a feature we shot with DVX100 at 25P.)

02. HVX200 resolution is going to be same for both PAL and NTSC model.
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01. Nope, actually camera runs 23,976fps (ntsc is 29,97fps), but that might be close enough for you?

02. Nope, pal version has 1440x1080 in 1080p25 mode, ntsc has 1280x1080 in 1080p24 mode.
 
toke lahti said:
01. Nope, actually camera runs 23,976fps (ntsc is 29,97fps), but that might be close enough for you?

02. Nope, pal version has 1440x1080 in 1080p25 mode, ntsc has 1280x1080 in 1080p24 mode.
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That's assuming the 960/ 540 chips can uprezz to 1440... And, honestly, I don't see us gaining too much in there... I really didn't like much 1080p in this camera... 720p seems a lot better...
 
toke lahti said:
01. Nope, actually camera runs 23,976fps (ntsc is 29,97fps), but that might be close enough for you?

02. Nope, pal version has 1440x1080 in 1080p25 mode, ntsc has 1280x1080 in 1080p24 mode.
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01. Its not a problem.
02. I really think between 1440 and 1280 there is a noticible difference in resolution and will make a difference while blowing up to film. (BUT AS FAR AS I KNOW "IN DVC_PRO HD RESOLUTION IS SAME FOR PAL AND NTSC, ONLY FRAME RATE IS CHANGING" correct me if i am wrong and please let me know from where u got this 1440x1080)

In conclusion I THINK I MUST WAIT FOR THE PAL MODEL SO THAT I CAN REALLY EXTRACT MAXIMUM OUT OF HVX. 25fps material to 24 fps film is a not a problem in a long run, it is only matter of setting a correct work flow (which I should be able to streamline and perfect with one run through)
Thanks
 
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PC said:
(BUT AS FAR AS I KNOW "IN DVC_PRO HD RESOLUTION IS SAME FOR PAL AND NTSC, ONLY FRAME RATE IS CHANGING" correct me if i am wrong and please let me know from where u got this 1440x1080)
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Both 1440x1080 and 1280x1080 are dvcprohd resolutions and their existence is common knowledge. Ask your local panasonic support or try to find some documents/tech specs from panny's European site, if you don't believe me.
 
FREUDENBERG_FILMS said:
So what your saying is that pal and ntsc have the same pic quality in HD?
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Of course. That's the whole point of standardizing the color space and spatial dimensions. Only difference now is the refresh rate.
 
FREUDENBERG_FILMS said:
So what your saying is that pal and ntsc have the same pic quality in HD?
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If 1080-dvcprohd has different resolutions in 60i/30p than in 50i/25p, can't say that pq is the same...
 
The resolved detail will probably be identical. The extra 160 pixels on the 50i version is likely to make little to no difference.
 
Barry_Green said:
Of course. That's the whole point of standardizing the color space and spatial dimensions. Only difference now is the refresh rate.
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Alas we've got to wait until framerates are up to 150 fps before the 60 and 50Hz worlds can marry! :grin: :grin:

Or perhaps we'll all see sense and adopt 48fps.
 
For my part, there are still a few unanswered questions, maby someone has good answers!

1. Is it noticeable difference between DVCPROHD NTSC 24P and a DVCPROHD PAL 25P?
2. If yes; Can Cinematools convert PAL 25P into 24P for playback in european devices?
3. Is the result as good as NTSC 24P? (This is subjective)
4. Does the material get the genuine 24P feeling when coverted from 25P? (Not subjective)
5. Will the JVC HD100 Europe deliver a more filmlike footage than the HVX Europe because of its 24p algorithms?

Help is very appreciated!
 
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