EVA1: NLE Project Settings for V-Log (or any log for that matter)?

T

toddeastman

Active member
Hi everyone!
Wanted the groups input on how to setup an NLE project with log footage such as V-log. This post has me using Final Cut Pro 10.4.3 but the info could easily apply to any NLE.

I was under the assumption that the EVA1 wrote files to the internal card, regardless of codec or gamma (V-log, Scene File, HLG) that conform to Rec.709. So setting up a project to conform to Rec.709 should be an easy call. Well, I brought the same file into both a Standard (Rec.709) Library and a Wide Gamut HDR (Rec.2020) Library. The only thing applied to the clip in each instance is the Panasonic V-Log Camera LUT via the Inspector panel. Here are screen grabs of each with Standard first and Wide Gamut HDR second.

Standard.jpgWide Gamut.jpg

Big difference! Only adding the Camera LUT to the Wide Gamut HDR made the clip look like what my eye was seeing. Why did this work so well? Should I always be using a Wide Gamut HDR type workflow with ANY log footage (Sony, Arri, Red, Canon)? To add more confusion to the mix, The library in FCP was set to High Gamut HDR but the project itself in that library was set to Rec.709!! Changing the project to Rec.2020 showed no difference. The project color space setting is supposed to dictate the files that are rendered or exported.

So, in summary, when grading/editing Log footage what should we all be using for settings to be able to best mold the footage in post? It looks like a High Gamut HDR type setting gives the most options. I never considered using an HDR setting because I was under the impression that the Log encoding packed all that range into a Rec.709 package. What I just saw, as insignificant as some may see it, blew my mind.

Finishing/Exporting might be different story. What are you all working in and then exporting to for regular ole non-HDR and non-Rec.2020 or HLG?

PS. Any Atomos Shogun Inferno users monitoring V-Log with Log to Video or AtomHDR? I've noticed the Log to Video with the Panasonic V-log selected in monitor looks AWFUL! I have a proper exposure for Vlog. Using AtomHDR at 400% seems so show what my eye sees. I figured simply using the Log to Video with the V-log LUT would give client a good idea...but no. The in camera V-709 correction looks far better than the Inferno's correction.

Thanks for reading.
 
I would refrain from LUTs altogether when doing technical transforms.
I don't use FCP but applications like Resolve, Baselight, Nucoda etc use mathematical transforms or diectly use ACES rather than applying LUTs.
 
All software has a different way of handling LOG/RAW footage...sometimes it's providing you a preview and sometimes it's actually applying a transformation based on what you do (settings).

In general, if you don't know what to do or what to look for, you may end up importing your footage and not working within the proper palette if you will.

The amount of user error I see is phenomenal...and things are only getting more complicated. (And I myself have so much more to learn as well, always.)
 
Thanks for the replies! I agree with you both! My current issue is there is so much going on under the hood and out of sight that I'm seemingly not aware of as well as when to make the proper choice in the ever increasing number of choices. It's like the wild west! All kinds of options with very little explaining the "Whys" and "Hows" of those options.

Just shooting V-log (or S-Log, Log-C, ect...not RAW...thats a whole different can of worms), what prep needs to be taken, what boxes need to be checked, what color space needs to be chosen to properly ingest footage so it doesn't get transformed into something other than what the camera produced. I have seen so many inconsistencies between initial displays of V-log footage in post as well as monitoring on set (I'm looking at you Atomos Shogun Inferno). With the Inferno in particular, it's log to rec709 visual conversion is abysmal! I could be using it incorrectly but I have proper V-log exposure for White, Middle Gray, and Black as reported via zebra and check with the spot meter. If I use the Log to Rec709 mode set to read the in coming V-log with the intention of showing a client a rough idea of the image, it is horrible to look at. I need to run V-709 out of the camera to see a nice image on the monitor to satisfy the client. I suppose I could just use the AtomHR setting on the monitor but that brings up a whole range of inconsistencies. Setting the slider to some arbitrary location where the image looks good in HDR when the client will be finishing in a rec709 color space can lead to a disappointed client..."It looked better on set!"

Don't get me wrong, I'm simply concerned that I'm missing something in how to properly, meaning within color/display guidelines, take LOG footage into post as well as properly monitor it on set. There is a whole other discussion about HLG. That has it's own slightly different exposure options and another slew of post handling questions. None of this is so new that guidelines don't exist somewhere. Hoping through the forum, we can all figure this out.

Side question, does Panasonic provide the LUT they use for V-709 so I could load it on to the Inferno in the custom looks section? That way client can be happy! :)

EDIT: Found and loaded Panasonic's V-709 LUT into the Custom Looks section of the Inferno from here: https://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/varicam/35/dl.html and what I see on the Inferno is now matching what I would show a client by making the EVA1 include V-709 on the SDI, HDMI, or Viewfinder. Finally, a little consistency.
 
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Thanks Cary! Is there anything that guides where you put the HDR slider? I've just been putting it to where it looks like what my eye sees while using the camera's zebras, spot meter, and a handheld light meter to judge exposure. I can't see how an exposure can be accurately judged looking at a monitor when an arbitrary slider is involved.

I'm only saying this because I see so many people says things like "If it looks good on the monitor, you're fine." I just can't see how one would be "fine". :) Monitors for me have always been to judge framing not exposure. Guess I'm old school.

Once you get your v-Log footage, how do you set up your project for processing and post?
 
toddeastman said:
Thanks Cary! Is there anything that guides where you put the HDR slider? I've just been putting it to where it looks like what my eye sees while using the camera's zebras, spot meter, and a handheld light meter to judge exposure. I can't see how an exposure can be accurately judged looking at a monitor when an arbitrary slider is involved.

I'm only saying this because I see so many people says things like "If it looks good on the monitor, you're fine." I just can't see how one would be "fine". :) Monitors for me have always been to judge framing not exposure. Guess I'm old school.

Once you get your v-Log footage, how do you set up your project for processing and post?
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I put the slider at max, that gives the best possible view, I expose using the waveform under normal conditiona and adjust for special conditions (i.e. backlighted subject, general lack of light etc).

I use Resolve and load the clips using RCM or ACES.
 
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