Nikon in Dire Straits

DLD said:
For as long as Nikon, Panasonic and Olympus remain fully dependent on Sony sensors, they're guaranteed to provide only an appearance of competition.
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So you say often. I forget why using the best sensors available is a liability, but it all fits into the cabal conspiracy.

However, Nikon is not and has never been “fully dependent on Sony sensors”. They have used sensors of their own design in the D2H, D2Hs, D3, D700, D3S, D4, D4S, Df, D5, D6, D3100, and D3200 (I’m probably forgetting some) and Toshiba sensors in the D5200, D7100, and D7200. There were other providers in the past (e.g. Aptina for the Nikon 1 System), and there will probably be others in the future. Nikon has also used custom-commissioned Sony sensors in some important cameras, e.g. the D500 and D850.

Nikon is not struggling to attract market share because of their sensor provider. They are struggling because they have made a series of important marketing errors, wasting vast resources developing blatantly misguided products (e.g. KeyMission), reasonable products that the market rejected (e.g. Nikon 1 System), and good products that got cancelled because of bad luck (e.g. DL18-50). You can only afford to blow so much cash before you run into trouble in a competitive environment.

It’s not too late to fix the Z System (it’s class-leading in lots of ways but needs better video across the board), but I don’t have a lot of faith that Nikon won’t make another major marketing error at the next critical juncture. And they’ll need some good luck for a change.
 
Samuel Dilworth said:
So you say often. I forget why using the best sensors available is a liability ...
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Of course, Nikon cripples these "best sensors" but I wouldn't call it a marketing error. It's a part of the deal they struck with Sony. Much like Panasonic did, albeit with a different cripple hammer applied.

As to what Nikon made in the past, it's not really relevant to 2021. Once upon a time, they made film cameras too, and in 2011-12, the global photo-video industry was moving ten million units per month. Now, all of them are lucky to move five million ILC's per year. It's a rapidly sinking market, which most business schools will instruct to avoid.
 
DLD said:
Of course, Nikon cripples these "best sensors" but I wouldn't call it a marketing error. It's a part of the deal they struck with Sony.
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The weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness.

DLD said:
As to what Nikon made in the past, it's not really relevant to 2021.
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The past gives context to refute the claim that Nikon is “fully dependent on Sony sensors”. It hasn’t been in the past, and, right now in 2021, Nikon’s most accomplished camera, the D6, does not use a Sony sensor. This shows the company is not “fully dependent on Sony sensors”. No-one is. It’s an open market. Sony is only as good as its latest sensor and latest price. There are many competitors and there would soon be more if Sony took a wrong step. Sony does not have the market power you imagine.

Moreover, as I’ve mentioned before, Sony Imaging & Sensing Solutions, which sells image sensors to Nikon, is functionally separate from Sony Electronics Corporation, the camera maker. The camera maker buys sensors from Sony Imaging & Sensing Solutions in the same way that Nikon or Panasonic do.

Japan has a unique business culture, but it didn’t come to dominate the worldwide camera market, seeing off challenges from European companies, American companies, and most recently Asian companies, by lazy collusion or other anti-competitive methods. It is harder than you think to get the marketing right, because the market is always changing and products take years to develop. By the time a major new product comes to market it may look stupid, but it wouldn’t have been as easy to know that two years earlier when development began. If you think otherwise, tell us what critical features will be needed for success in 2023, if you dare. Be as a specific as would be required for a real product.
 
They are really towing the line right now with their products. Sony copy cats that have less features. Panaosonic and Fuji both use Sony sensors but their products stand out. External BRAW recording is a pretty neat feature but both the Z6 MK1 and MK2 both feel lackluster as video tools in comparison with a Panasonic camera.

Would love to see them step up the competition. Would really be nice if someone other than Canon and Sony jumped into the Sensor game.
 
sgttom said:
... Would love to see them step up the competition. Would really be nice if someone other than Canon and Sony jumped into the Sensor game.
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There are dozens of large scale manufacturing companies making sensors for everything from the mobile phones to the automotive to industrial to military/security, etc. But the Japanese want to keep it in-house for a reason - the ability to control features and prices. The non-Japanese video manufacturers such as BMD, KineFinity or Z-Cam deliver a greater feature set for at a lower price point but lack the engineering muscle of the large scale manufacturers. Samsung had a superior camera in NX-1 - 6K-to-4K back in 2015 - but its mount found no traction and the Koreans realized that the entire photo-video market capitalization wasn't worth pursuing.

PS. Naturally, the Japanese companies not named Sony could have bought Samsung photo-video sensors but they chose a different path. Nowadays, Samsung makes smartphone sensors with a higher resolution than that of any Japanese MFT, APS-C or Full Frame cameras - with the sole exception being the 150 MPX Sony sensor on Phase One - and destroying the photo-video cartel from the outside. The Japanese picked a wrong time to cartelize, right when the mobile phone market was gaining steam.
 
50mp 8k.. hmm not really a focus on fast delivered news? Or is that the z8?

Cant see my AFP chum digging 50mp

Incedentally he finds the z6 unusable because it is missing some wifi bits and voice captions essential to the Getty (stills) workflow
 
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