pulpfiction007
Veteran
Just shoot everything manual...not auto ANYTHING. You'll get much better results.
Nikon D7100 - Video settings.
- Thread starter romandesign
- Start date
romandesign
Member
For creative work - of course. But my typical case when I need auto is when we're having a small trip or a walk with kids and I don't want to lug both SLR and bulky video camera with me. In a bright sun it's impossible to judge exposure on LCD without cumbersome accessories. I want to just point and shoot. And logically there should be no reason not to. Yes, focus is problematic, bu I can live with that, mapping "autofocus on demand" to function button. But setting a shutter and compensating with ISO automatically should be easy, not impossible. This camera does it all in other modes, just not movie mode...
pulpfiction007
Veteran
Well, here's what I'm saying though...in bright light, you shouldn't go over ISO 100....period. Your shutter should be twice the frame rate in 30p video, 1/60. If those are set, you don't have to mess with them in manual mode AT ALL in bright light. Before entering live view set your aperture with the view finder and judge your exposure that way...even take a photo and check the histogram to see you're all set. Buy an ND filter if you don't want to stop down the aperture a ton.
In good light, you will only need to set your aperture and then you can happily shoot away in Manual mode. That's why I'm suggesting it...so the camera doesn't do all of those wacky things.
http://vimeo.com/23428567
The way she sets it up here, is exactly what I would do personally. She makes it look like it takes a long time, but that's because she's explaining it all. The main thing is, once you have the shutter set to 60, the ISO set to 100, the picture style set...you can be good to go through the day...just adjusting the aperture before rolling each clip. Having to Adjust it in the viewfinder before live view helps so you can see what the exposure is. Remember to get an ND filter(s) though. (I realize it's the 7000...but they function the same for live view/video)
In good light, you will only need to set your aperture and then you can happily shoot away in Manual mode. That's why I'm suggesting it...so the camera doesn't do all of those wacky things.
http://vimeo.com/23428567
The way she sets it up here, is exactly what I would do personally. She makes it look like it takes a long time, but that's because she's explaining it all. The main thing is, once you have the shutter set to 60, the ISO set to 100, the picture style set...you can be good to go through the day...just adjusting the aperture before rolling each clip. Having to Adjust it in the viewfinder before live view helps so you can see what the exposure is. Remember to get an ND filter(s) though. (I realize it's the 7000...but they function the same for live view/video)
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romandesign
Member
Sure, I've ordered variable ND filter off ebay (I know it's not ideal but all tests around show that it's quite decent in 2 - 160 area, just not 160 - 400 area). What ND filter do you usually use in the daylight? would 8 be enough (they usually are sole in 2, 6 or 8)? Or something stronger?
pulpfiction007
Veteran
Just experiment...it really depends on the scene, if you want to keep a shallow dof, etc.
I tested my D7100 on the video live-view mode, and at first it worked like I thought it should. That is, in S mode, I was able to change shutter speed and the ISO adjusted accordingly (because it's night and the aperture was already wide open). But after a few minutes of going between different modes, it seemed to develop problems similar to what romandesign reported. I'm not sure if I accidentally changed some settings (I don't think so), or if the camera overheated, or what. But here's how my D7100 operates now.
In M mode, I can manually change shutter speed and ISO. However, auto-ISO does not work. I have to change ISO manually.
In S mode, the camera arbitrarily selects a shutter speed, either 30, 50, or 60. This happens no matter what shutter speed I selected prior to entering live-view mode. And once in live-view mode, I cannot change shutter speed at all. ISO is selected automatically whether I have auto-ISO on or not. I am able to change exposure using the exposure compensation function.
I'll try more testing tomorrow, but I really think this is a bug. How do you report this to Nikon?
I was planning to use this camera on a shoot next week. Fortunately, I was only planning to use Manual mode, which seems to be okay for the most part. But S mode is really screwed.
In M mode, I can manually change shutter speed and ISO. However, auto-ISO does not work. I have to change ISO manually.
In S mode, the camera arbitrarily selects a shutter speed, either 30, 50, or 60. This happens no matter what shutter speed I selected prior to entering live-view mode. And once in live-view mode, I cannot change shutter speed at all. ISO is selected automatically whether I have auto-ISO on or not. I am able to change exposure using the exposure compensation function.
I'll try more testing tomorrow, but I really think this is a bug. How do you report this to Nikon?
I was planning to use this camera on a shoot next week. Fortunately, I was only planning to use Manual mode, which seems to be okay for the most part. But S mode is really screwed.
ND filters are rated by their optical density or f-stop reduction.
1 f-stop reduction = 0.3 density = ND2 (sometimes written 2x, it only lets in 1/2 the light)
2 f-stop reduction = 0.6 density = ND4
3 f-stop reduction = 0.9 density = ND8
4 f-stop reduction = 1.2 density = ND16
and so on up to about 10 f-stop reduction.
As a rule of thumb, if you're shooting in bright mid day sun using ISO 100 and 1/50 shutter speed, then your aperture should be set to f/22. To get the aperture to f/5.6, you would need a 4 f-stop reduction filter.
You can buy ND filters individually or in sets. Video cameras with built in ND filters usually have 3 & 6 stops, or 2, 4 & 6 stops filters. If you have lenses with different filter sizes, I suggest buying filters for the largest lens and use step up rings to adapt them to your other lenses. Also, I suggest buying filters with multi coating to reduce flare. They cost a little more but are worth it.
romandesign
Member
Exactly! That's exactly what I have. Most of the time camera selects 30, but it can be other shutter speed, I've seen 125 couple of times, and 60. Mostly 30 though. Nowhere in the manual it is said that S mode does not work in video, at least I couldn't find it. And people here said it does work in D5200 and D7000 if I understood correctly. So, as there is no technical reason it shouldn't work, it's definitely a bug! I'm glad it's not just my camera, so it means it's not a defective product.
I strongly suggest you go here, register and "ask them question", describing exactly as you did here, and asking to forward that to their developers. I have already asked about this and got a completely stupid and irrelevant response, but I didn't think at the time that it's a bug, I thought I'm missing something. I will submit again, stating that this is definitely a bug and asking to forward that to respective department.
We need more people to tell that to them, so there is better change they will fix the firmware - this is definitely a firmware issue and should be easily fixable.
romandesign
Member
Thanks
Thanks for the detailed description, I wasn't aware that the D7100 has a separate Video Live View mode that works differently than its Photo Live View mode. I have the D5100, D5200, and have tested the D7000, all of which have a single, unified Live View mode which works the same way for both video and still photos. Judging from your account, the D7100's Video Live View mode appears to work in an idiosyncratic manner that's intended to make things easier for consumer use. Will the D7100 allow you to shoot a video simply by pressing the video button in Photo Live View mode, or do you have to enter Video Live View mode first?
With respect to auto-ISO behavior, I think it's more understandable as a separate mode on its own terms, rather than an add-on feature to the standard M, A, S, P modes. When you turn on auto-ISO, you're instructing the camera to auto-expose your photo or video, and that by definition means you're not shooting in manual exposure mode. Auto-ISO adjusts exposure primarily by selecting the proper ISO within the min-max range you've preset, but when the lighting's out of range, auto-ISO will adjust shutter speed as well. So by its nature, auto-ISO will override both M and S modes, and the camera's inability to adjust aperture in Live View makes P mode unusable. As a consequence, when in Live View mode, auto-ISO is fully compatible only with A mode, and that's how I recommend using it.
romandesign
Member
I don't see how this manner can make things easier for anybody
No, video record button doesn't respond in photo live view mode.
Well, that would make some sense, if Auto-ISO consistently worked in all modes. But it does not work in M mode in Video Live View, but works as usual in M mode in Photo Live View
I think it would make more sense if M would disable Auto-ISO for photos, but I can live with that, it's just a few clicks added when switching to M, although some (like Ken Rockwell) call it a bug, because it beats me how it can be useful for anybody for photos to select M for photos and still have auto-exposure due to Auto-ISO. But the fact that it doesn't work in video mode (just where it would be very helpful!) makes any auto mode unusable because of fluctuating shutter speed. Not good... Well, maybe they will fix it in next firmware update, but I'm not very optimistic about that...I did some more testing on how auto-ISO works in M mode on the D5200, which may be helpful with the D7100 as well. (Make sure that you've enabled "Manual Movie Settings" in the "Movie Settings" menu.)
With the D5200 in viewfinder mode, M mode will restrict auto-ISO solely to adjusting ISO within the min-max range you've preset. Instead of setting auto-exposure level, the Exposure Compensation button allows you to directly set your lens aperture. The exposure compensation feature is still working, however, and it can be adjusted in with the "i" button in the LCD display.
With the D5200 in Live View mode, auto-ISO is disabled in M mode. In addtion, the aperture cannot be changed, and the Exposure Compensation button is inactive. The exposure compensation feature is still there, however, and it can be adjusted with the "i" button, but since auto-ISO is disabled, it has no effect on your exposure. The LCD display will show you the image your manual shutter speed and ISO settings produce.
This D5200 M mode behavior reinforces my previous conclusions - for video shooting, auto-ISO is best suited to Live View A mode, where you can use the Exposure Compensation button and AE-Lock button to control your auto-exposure settings.
For still photo shooting, auto-ISO can be used in viewfinder M mode, where you can use the Exposure Compensation button and AE-Lock button to control your auto-ISO setting. With auto-ISO in viewfinder M mode, however, you will get under or over-exposure when your min-max ISO range preset can't handle the lighting conditions.
If you instead use auto-ISO in viewfinder or Live View A mode, auto-ISO will adjust your shutter speed to maintain proper exposure when it falls outside your preset min-max ISO range. In Live View A mode, however, the D5200 allows you to adjust the aperture setting, even though it doesn't actually change the lens iris until you either leave Live View mode or take a snapshot. This pitfall is something you must consciously avoid while using auto-ISO in Live View A mode.
With the D5200 in viewfinder mode, M mode will restrict auto-ISO solely to adjusting ISO within the min-max range you've preset. Instead of setting auto-exposure level, the Exposure Compensation button allows you to directly set your lens aperture. The exposure compensation feature is still working, however, and it can be adjusted in with the "i" button in the LCD display.
With the D5200 in Live View mode, auto-ISO is disabled in M mode. In addtion, the aperture cannot be changed, and the Exposure Compensation button is inactive. The exposure compensation feature is still there, however, and it can be adjusted with the "i" button, but since auto-ISO is disabled, it has no effect on your exposure. The LCD display will show you the image your manual shutter speed and ISO settings produce.
This D5200 M mode behavior reinforces my previous conclusions - for video shooting, auto-ISO is best suited to Live View A mode, where you can use the Exposure Compensation button and AE-Lock button to control your auto-exposure settings.
For still photo shooting, auto-ISO can be used in viewfinder M mode, where you can use the Exposure Compensation button and AE-Lock button to control your auto-ISO setting. With auto-ISO in viewfinder M mode, however, you will get under or over-exposure when your min-max ISO range preset can't handle the lighting conditions.
If you instead use auto-ISO in viewfinder or Live View A mode, auto-ISO will adjust your shutter speed to maintain proper exposure when it falls outside your preset min-max ISO range. In Live View A mode, however, the D5200 allows you to adjust the aperture setting, even though it doesn't actually change the lens iris until you either leave Live View mode or take a snapshot. This pitfall is something you must consciously avoid while using auto-ISO in Live View A mode.
romandesign
Member
Looks like D7100 behaves a bit differently.
As I mentioned, there is no "Manual Movie Settings" in the "Movie Settings" menu on D7100. It does not exist.
"i" doesn't bring any exposure compensation options. Normal exposure compensation button + wheel works and makes screen brighter or darker, affecting the shutter.
What is the purpose to use A mode if shutter speed is variable and can't be frozen by AE-lock without freezing auto-ISO, in essence making is the same (but more complicated to use) as full M mode? I think I'm still not getting something in your logic. Can you or can't you operate in automatic mode with frozen shutter and variable auto-ISO? If yes, I'm not sure I understand how, if not - then M is only viable option if you want to get shutter 60 in changing conditions.
As I mentioned, there is no "Manual Movie Settings" in the "Movie Settings" menu on D7100. It does not exist.
"i" doesn't bring any exposure compensation options. Normal exposure compensation button + wheel works and makes screen brighter or darker, affecting the shutter.
What is the purpose to use A mode if shutter speed is variable and can't be frozen by AE-lock without freezing auto-ISO, in essence making is the same (but more complicated to use) as full M mode? I think I'm still not getting something in your logic. Can you or can't you operate in automatic mode with frozen shutter and variable auto-ISO? If yes, I'm not sure I understand how, if not - then M is only viable option if you want to get shutter 60 in changing conditions.
Ok, I did a little more testing and here's what I found.
S, A, and P modes all behave the same way when shooting video. The camera sets a certain shutter speed and ISO. As lighting conditions change, it automatically changes the ISO until it reaches the minimum or maximum. Then it starts changing the shutter speed to maintain good exposure, with 30 being the lowest speed. Turning Auto-ISO off has no effect.
I would expect P and A modes to behave this way, but in S mode, you should be able to set the shutter speed and let the camera control ISO. So that would be a recommendation to Nikon.
As reported earlier, in M mode, shutter and ISO are manually controlled. Turning Auto-ISO on has no effect. I think I like it better this way.
S, A, and P modes all behave the same way when shooting video. The camera sets a certain shutter speed and ISO. As lighting conditions change, it automatically changes the ISO until it reaches the minimum or maximum. Then it starts changing the shutter speed to maintain good exposure, with 30 being the lowest speed. Turning Auto-ISO off has no effect.
I would expect P and A modes to behave this way, but in S mode, you should be able to set the shutter speed and let the camera control ISO. So that would be a recommendation to Nikon.
As reported earlier, in M mode, shutter and ISO are manually controlled. Turning Auto-ISO on has no effect. I think I like it better this way.
pulpfiction007
Veteran
Exactly as I said before...
If you don't want unpredictable things happening, shoot in M mode. Set your shutter, set your ISO, adjust your aperture,....check exposure, enter live view...shoot.
If you don't want unpredictable things happening, shoot in M mode. Set your shutter, set your ISO, adjust your aperture,....check exposure, enter live view...shoot.
romandesign
Member
Not exactly. Let's say the proper exposure is F3.5, 1/60 and ISO 100. 100 is the lower ISO limit, so it should only adjust exposure if it's too bright for the ISO 100, right? But it bumps shutter to 1/30! That's more light into the camera, not less. Auto-ISO should mean that it would instead bump ISO to 160 and leave shutter at 60. "A" mode would mean that it would adjust shutter without touching ISO until it gets too slow. But it's doing both! It can bump up both ISO and shutter! There is no condition whatsoever that warrants 1/125 F5 ISO 160 - that's what I saw on the screen just now. Aperture is irrelevant of course, as it's not variable in video mode. It should keep ISO at 100 and shutter at 1/60 or 1/80, right? There is no sense whatsoever to crank up both shutter and ISO up! None!
And if it's too dark, it should crank up ISO first until it gets to higher extreme set at Auto-ISO and only then slow shutter down. But it's not doing that! First thing is does is to lower shutter to 30 which is bad for any mode and only then starts to increase ISO. So let's say ISO is at 160 but shutter is at 30 already...
Nope, on the D5200, when using auto-ISO in Live View A mode, it will primarily adjust ISO but may also adjust shutter speed in extreme lighting conditions. When you then press AE-Lock, it will hold both ISO and shutter speed. This works well for shooting video when you want to maintain fixed exposure levels during your shot. A more traditional approach is to set aperture in viewfinder M mode and everything else manually in Live View M mode, but since the camera lacks a real-time histogram, it's difficult to gauge the proper exposure settings. With auto-ISO in Live View A mode, you can rely on the D5200's matrix light meter to select the correct ISO for you, and lock it down with the AE-Lock button before shooting your video.
If you want auto-ISO along with a fixed, manually set shutter speed, you can use Live View S mode, but I'm not sure it works reliably. Since the aperture cannot change while in Live View, S mode should leave the aperture value unchanged and adjust exposure solely via auto-ISO. In practice, I see auto-ISO Live View S mode altering both ISO and aperture values, even though the camera cannot work that way. Similar dysfunctions happen in auto-ISO Live View P mode, leaving A mode as the only reliable way to use auto-ISO in Live View.
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romandesign
Member
OK, now I finally get it! So the advantage of A mode is reliable metering that you lock with AE for it to essentially replace M mode with metering. D7100 does that in any mode I think, not just A, and it doesn't attempt to change aperture. But the AE-lock method as "metering freeze" is a really nice idea. In D7100 I can get "photo live meter" assigned to a button, so I can get metering, but when I see it, changes do not apply to video, so I need to click it again and reapply changes in video mode (all can be done without stopping recording). Freezing seems more convenient, if I can get it to stay within 1/60 before freezing.
This is exactly the behaviour I see with the D7000, only it is reliable – Live-view S mode pegs shutter speed at the selected value, and auto ISO floats the sensitivity to expose correctly according to the matrix metering. It's usually very good. The camera may report that it's changing aperture, but since it has no mechanism for doing so in live view it finds a metered exposure using only auto ISO. That is: if you ignore the aperture indication the camera behaves as expected and desired.
Playing around with live-view A mode on the D7000, I find it does the same thing only without the floating aperture indication. I suspect I settled on shooting in S mode partly because in my head that's how video cameras work (we select a shutter speed for a motion look, then an aperture for a depth-of-field look, then juggle sensitivity and ND for exposure), and partly because when I was first fiddling around I hadn't set up auto ISO properly.
Have we established whether A-mode shooting with auto ISO enabled is workable on the D7100? If it behaves like my D7000 does, that's an entirely usable workflow.
romandesign
Member
That is exactly how I expected and would want D7100 to work, but it doesn't :-(
Workable as M (manual mode) with "metering" that locks exposure, but there is apparently no workable automatic mode that keeps shutter fixed :-(