Nikon D4 (vs D800)

latyshev said:
Thanks for posting this. Great stuff.

I am surprised at your comments about color reproduction and using in-camera sharpening. From the tests i did (D3s, D7k and D800) i felt that setting it to 0 always produced more pleasing image.
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Thanks for the feedback, though I'm not quite sure what you mean.

In all of my tests, I used the Neutral Picture Control (only because for filmmaking, and thinking ahead for proper color grading, I wanted to shoot in as neutral color possible).

Neutral, by default, was +2. I found best results by taking the +2 sharpness footage, and applying USM in post, or shooting the footage as +3 sharpness, and applying no USM in post.

Either way works fine for general cinematography, but personally, I'd probably shoot in +2 Neutral footage, and use play around with USM in post.
 
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Hi Geronimo.

I am Johnnie, "the guy" behind the footage which was posted in eoshd.com (http://vimeo.com/39035275) and later used by Andrew as part of his article regarding the Nikon D4 full frame video capabilities.

First allow me to thank you for sharing your footage findings. Appreciated!.

I guess you are like me, a pro who is looking for the best tool in a specific price range which is also having unique video capabilities to work with.
No fanboy here or having a specific agenda!.

After working daily for a month now with the amazing D4 (pre production and production models) I stand behind my opinion that the footage made by the D4 in FF is not usable (for me). When watching footage strait out of the camera on a 50 inch screen, the picture is extremely soft and suffering from poor down scaling. Hope it can be fixed by a firmware update.

Now, I am not into bashing but more into understanding why your experience is so different then mine.

It will be a great help if you can capture some footage with a wide angle lens (14-24mm) and post your result. I will be thankful to download and watch it on my screen.


Later this weekend I will post more footage taken in FF but this time with the ninja......

At list we can agree on one thing, the footage captured by the camera in 2.7 crop mode is nothing but amazing....

Thanks again for sharing.


Johnnie
 
Thanks Johnnie for your input. You two have been the best help to understand this camera.

Greetings from south of Europe,

E :-)
 
OPHERBA said:
Hi Geronimo.

I am Johnnie, "the guy" behind the footage which was posted in eoshd.com (http://vimeo.com/39035275) and later used by Andrew as part of his article regarding the Nikon D4 full frame video capabilities.

First allow me to thank you for sharing your footage findings. Appreciated!.

I guess you are like me, a pro who is looking for the best tool in a specific price range which is also having unique video capabilities to work with.
No fanboy here or having a specific agenda!.

After working daily for a month now with the amazing D4 (pre-production and production models) I stand behind my opinion that the footage made by the D4 in FF is not usable (for me). When watching footage strait out of the camera on a 50 inch screen, the picture is extremely soft and suffering from poor down scaling. Hope it can be fixed by a firmware update.

Now, I am not into bashing but more into understanding why your experience is so different then mine.

It will be a great help if you can capture some footage with a wide angle lens (14-24mm) and post your result. I will be thankful to download and watch it on my screen.


Later this weekend I will post more footage taken in FF but this time with the ninja......

At list we can agree on one thing, the footage captured by the camera in 2.7 crop mode is nothing but amazing....

Thanks again for sharing.


Johnnie
Click to expand...


Hi Johnnie,

I can tell, if by no other means, through your punctuation, that you seem less than pleased with my comments. So please allow me to address some of them.

Let me start by saying that I have seen your 2.7x/interview video work-in-progress, and I absolutely love it! I have passed the link to your D4 2.7x crop video around to a number of colleagues as a great example of how to create engaging and compelling "talking heads" video, not just through HDSLR, but through any video setup (but specifically yours because it takes advantage of the latest Nikon technologies). I've been using your video as an example as to what my colleagues should be striving for in terms of composition, and using main/large objects/props in the background/foreground to keep it all interesting. And, because you are using the 2.7x crop on the D4, the level of HD detail you are achieving in your recording is absolutely astounding. So, again, huge kudos and props to you (and your team, if you have one) for your work on that film. You are doing a magnificent job - the "work-in-progress" version is amazing as it is, and I can't wait to see the final product.

Moving on, I am unsure if you are a personal friend of the author of the eoshd.com review or not - if you are, maybe you can relay whether there is an agenda of the "canon eos hd review guy" trying to throw together a (imo, just bad) review between the D800 and D4. And, regardless, I'm sorry your video got caught up in the crossfire, so to speak, but as someone who personally dropped $10,000 of my own personal money to buy both the D4 and D800 (due to lack of usable reviews/contrasts between the two camera bodies) to figure out which was the best camera for me and my cinematography future, I had a hell of a whirlwind crash course on the exploits, and failures, of both camera bodies.

Your video does an exemplary job of highlighting the fantastic 2.7x crop mode, but the eoshd.com author also then posts a singular screen capture of allegedly a 1.0x/FX image. Was this image also captured by you? Now, in ALL of my tests, I have been using the Neutral picture control, so that I could provide the flattest image possible that we filmmakers would use for color grading in post-production. The Neutral picture control on a D4 has a default Sharpness of +2. If you look at my "album" of D4/D800 tests, you will see that I ran USM/in-camera sharpening tests on the D4 specifically. And if you compare the images in my tests, with that singular screenshot image that the eoshd.com author uses to proclaim the D4 sucks, then you will see that none of my D4 1.0x images come close to resembling his screenshot image, until a large amount of sharpening has been applied.

Further, I have shot 1.0x footage of myself, standing in front of the bathroom mirror, and being bald myself, similar to the target individual in the eoshd review, none of my footage at default Neutral sharpening settings looked anything like that screenshot on eoshd.com.

With the hours of 1.0x footage I have shot myself, and comparing it to that singular screenshot provided by the eoshd author, I can only logically conclude that his one 1.0x screenshot image is very over-sharpened. I'm not sure if you did it, or he did it - it really doesn't matter - but he is purporting that that is the default image from the D4, and that just isn't the case. Well, unless he is using an alternative Picture Control, such as vivid - that might make sense. But, regardless, he should make mention of this in his review.

But, really - I shouldn't have to say this: If the eoshd guy really wanted to do a review that he could tout on the net as a true D4 vs D800 review, then he would have used the cameras to capture the same image, at the same location, with the same subjects and lighting, etc. He makes some very bold statements in his review, without being able to back them up with actual side-by-side comparison shots.

Because of that, in my honest opinion, his review should be denounced and not used for purchasing considerations (would you make a decision whether or not to spend $6,500 based upon his singular over-sharpened D4 1.0x image? I sure as hell wouldn’t!).
I would love it if he re-did his review, doing true side-by-sides, to make his review and statements valid, but as it stands, it is, sadly, a bad review of the two camera bodies.

Your great 2.7x crop video is attached to the review, to your betterment or detriment, I cannot say. I wouldn't have known about your video work otherwise. I’m assuming the screenshot of the over-sharpened gentleman that the eoshd author goes on to use as an example of the poor 1.0x video quality came from your experimentations? If so, what were your camera settings for that shot?

But again, I don't want people to confuse the eoshd.com review article (which I personally don't like) with your 2.7x video that gets displayed at the end of your article. Your work-in-progress is truly amazing (quality that good can't be captured on the D800, 2.7x crop/WA or not). But the over-sharpened/over-contrasted screen capture of the alleged 1.0x "talking head" is nothing like what I captured in my personal tests.

If there's more to it, then please let us know. Otherwise, I stand by my statements based upon my whirlwind of extensive tests.

As to your mention about "bashing" - as someone who works in the entertainment business, and has worked both in front of the camera and behind it, I know how much work and personal effort goes into creating articles, films, photos, etc. But because of this, I also realize the responsibility we authors have in presenting this material in a completely objective and balanced manner. Thus, having shot footage myself on both the D4 and D800, and after reading this one particular review, I had to call it out. I still think it was poorly done, and the information/comparison poorly presented. I would love it if the author re-did the comparison article with side-by-side video footage using the same in-camera settings, but as it stands, and knowing this article is getting passed around like wildfire and taken as God's Word, I had to speak out against it with levity. I hope you understand.

That said, if you want D4 footage, now that I have decided that the D4 will be my mine moving forward and now have no qualms about putting it through its paces, please feel free to PM me with subject/location/lens/lighting/etc information, and I will be more than happy to try to oblige the requests.

-Bruce
 
Geronimo said:
Thanks for the feedback, though I'm not quite sure what you mean.

In all of my tests, I used the Neutral Picture Control (only because for filmmaking, and thinking ahead for proper color grading, I wanted to shoot in as neutral color possible).

Neutral, by default, was +2. I found best results by taking the +2 sharpness footage, and applying USM in post, or shooting the footage as +3 sharpness, and applying no USM in post.

Either way works fine for general cinematography, but personally, I'd probably shoot in +2 Neutral footage, and use play around with USM in post.
Click to expand...

What i meant is i personally prefer Neutral with sharpness set to 0. Look more organic to my eye this way.
 
H_ly crap! He's tested the D4 and found that +3 or +2 Sharpness w/ USM add in post looks very good. What's the big effing deal about this? Not every camera will look good w/ the identical settings.

We already know that you like 0 Sharpness. But you haven't tested that on a D4. And even if you had, good for you. Geronimo is just sharing his opinion and experiences. So why argue about it? It makes no sense and just makes it less likely for others to be willing to share their findings.
 
what interest me deeply and i wish someone would do a serious test (stepchart test)
is the Latitude/Dynamic range difference between the two cameras , how much f stops each one has ?
from what Geronimo says and his test , the color reproduction of the d4 is better , and you can see it , does this means it has more stops ?
if someone has an estimation of how much DR the d4 and d800 has , i would love to hear
 
t.p. said:
in the meantime heres another nice testing i found on low light comparison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXBGiEL7qW0
(its a shame its in youtube compression which is s**t)
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YouTube compression aside, the D800, imo, showed far too much noise in FX, and the D4 captured it superbly. The FX softness in this clip between D4 and D800 was negligble, and the D4's 2.7x mode was very crisp.

Yeah, the more these side-by-side comparions come out between those two cams, the more I am happy about my D4 decision.
 
So true. The vid was clearly downsampled badly, as there is aliasing on the animals' horns and it the titles themselves--and there's banding in the sky. But it's a beautiful video.
 
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Whats causing me to reconsider the D4 over the D800, resolution aside, is the lowlight performance where it clearly does exceptionally well.
 
Very interesting comparison

Very interesting comparison

t.p. said:
and another comparison ive found on vimeo with mov download "Low Light ISO Noise Comparison - Canon 5D Mark III - Canon 5D Mark II - Nikon D800 - Nikon D4"

https://vimeo.com/39459861
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D800 seems to be more or less on par with the 5DII. Both D800 and 5DII have that nasty color rainbows on the door.
It is amazing how well the D4 holds up to highest ISOs. 5DIII seems surprisingly noisier than D4. No color rainbows on neither D4 nor 5DIII.

Martin
 
There is some footage in D800 that looks amazing .... and other that just looks plain bad ... I got the D800 I can't just yet afford the D4 even though looks temping ... I would love to know what kinda of settings are those guys using in the D800 ...
Quick question is recommendable to have the Noise reduction ON or OFF? I guess on ...
 
You know contrary to Canon a lot of the Nikon ussers are new to Video. So a lot of thing they don't know. I just saw a video description on vimeo and the shutter was 1/125 sec. A lot seem to crank the sharpness and contrast a lot and post on youtube, so this tells you the general level. As a disclaimer I shoot Nikon.
 
Danielvilliers said:
You know contrary to Canon a lot of the Nikon ussers are new to Video. So a lot of thing they don't know. I just saw a video description on vimeo and the shutter was 1/125 sec. A lot seem to crank the sharpness and contrast a lot and post on youtube, so this tells you the general level. As a disclaimer I shoot Nikon.
Click to expand...

The big question, is will a longtime Nikon shooter that's coming back to the brand (not video), come back to Nikon or something else? Only post NAB will I know fore sure.
 
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