Nikkor VR & G lenses

To Stephen, Stephen Johnson is a still photographer (as I said), he uses a Super 6K2 sensor (6000 X 8000 pixel tri linear sensor) on a BetterLight digital insert for his Sinar 4x5 still camera. After thirty years of photographic experience in film, he switched in 1994 when he did comparisons to large format digital (he was using Photoshop before it was bought by Adobe and called Photoshop, and he wrote the gamma curves that we still use today). I have seen his large format prints in his studio in Pacifica where there are rainbows in the mist coming off of waterfalls in Yosemite that will never be captured on film.
Do not confuse his equipment with that of video, however the technology has been there for years. (For direct comparison to film, see page 66 of his book "Stephen Johnson on Digital photography")

To Jarred, I never said anything about wanting VR, that was Greg. What I am suggesting is something similar to what Canon has on their H1, and I don’t really care about autofocus (although sometimes in my situations it is a necessity) as much as I have to have programmed exposure mode to instantaneously switch from bright direct light to shadow light in the same shot (which is no problem on the Canon lenses).
Are you saying that wouldn't be viable on the RED? (Even the Cinealta has an in camera automatic exposure feature).

J*
 
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If you put a Nikon lens on a Cinealta, or a H1, im Sorry my friend you are not going to get automatic exposure. The only way to artificially adjust exposure correctly without changing the aperture on the lens is through NDs.

Changing Shutter speed/gains to compensate for exposure have side effects that are not reversable.

Remember though.. you can adjust the iris on many Nikon lenses manually, so if you want to have an "automatic" iris, to go from light to dark scenes ... You can rent one... his name is Claudio and he can be dialed up via "1-800-FIND-A-1st-AC"
 
Jarred Land said:
If you put a Nikon lens on a Cinealta, or a H1, im Sorry my friend you are not going to get automatic exposure. The only way to artificially adjust exposure correctly without changing the aperture on the lens is through NDs.

Changing Shutter speed/gains to compensate for exposure have side effects that are not reversable.

Remember though.. you can adjust the iris on many Nikon lenses manually, so if you want to have an "automatic" iris, to go from light to dark scenes ... You can rent one... his name is Claudio and he can be dialed up via "1-800-FIND-A-1st-AC"
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Jarred, why would I want to take off the Canon lens from the H1? They are fully integrated and have internal ND's along with focus and zoom presets, manual adjustments, and built in image stabilization. I have used the adapter to attach a Canon zoom lens which gave me the equivalent of a 1400mm lens though.
I was hoping that the RED would be an alternative to the Canon as a field camera for the work I am doing, but it won't.

J*
 
Jeffry,

I understand the ENG/EFP field production needs you describe. My production work is evenly split between cine-style and ENG/EFP style. When I do my ENG/EFP style work, I do a lot of mobile, small crew, adventure travel, sports, nature, and documentary work that involves many of the challenges you describe in your work: rapidly changing exposures, mobility, no focus puller, etc. Auto exposure and user-selected exposure profiles are super useful in that type of shooting. Those of us using RED One for mobile ENG/EFP style production will need to use some cine-style techniques in order to effectively shoot. RED One will be a manual camera. In using RED lenses, Nikon lenses, or Canon lenses, all controls of the lenses will be manual. With some practice in alternate camera techniques, I think RED One can still be a reasonable good ENG/EFP camera system, using the re-designed shoulder mount and on-board recording to RED Flash (preferable), or maybe RED Drive if the camera won’t be jostled to heavily. RED has stated that their 720p screen and EVF will be very effective in unison with the focus assist and histogram. I believe they’ve also said that the camera can be set up so that the histogram will be readily viewable in the periphery of the screen and EVF. For ENG/EFP style shooting with RED One, we’ll need to rack focus constantly (something we’re already used to doing), and also adjust the exposure progressively (something we already do part of the time). If the screen/EVF/focus assist/histogram all dance together as well as RED claims, me, you and others doing mobile ENG/EFP style production with RED One should be able to pull it off effectively. Most of us who shoot ENG/EFP style also shoot cine-style portions for our programs – montages, inbumps, outbumps, etc. RED one will be naturally excellent for shooting those.

Here’s the “X factor”. RED has confirmed that they intend to include a 12-volt auxiliary power output on RED One (link below). This is great news for using powered accessories for shooting, whether it is cine-style of ENG/EFP style. In shooting mobile, small crew ENG/EFP style, and using B4 2/3” HD ENG zoom lenses for 1080p, a setup that sounds good for your wildlife productions, the auxiliary power output can power the servo zoom of the 2/” HD zoom lens. Then we’d have to rack focus as usual, and watch the histogram in the EVF and/or screen, and adjust exposure on the fly. This scenario is entirely workable. If using S35 or 35mm still lenses, some 3rd party developers could develop auxiliary power accessories to enhance the use of the manual lenses. I suspect there are 3rd party developers busy at work as we speak. Link: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=76365&page=2 (Stuart English, Post #16)

At this point I would assume that most of the specs for RED One have been finalized, or are close to being finalized, so the field workflow I’ve described above is the reality of the situation. RED One is being marketed as a digital cinema camera that can also be set up and accessorized for ENG/EFP production. Being fully manual, it will probably make an exceptional cine-style camera and a pretty decent ENG/EFP camera, and for those of us who do both styles of production it should be a nice solution. We’ll have to adjust some of our field production techniques when using RED One for mobile, small crew ENG/EFP style work, but the camera should be entirely usable. I’m one of the earliest reservists of a RED One camera - #8. I can promise you that as soon as I get #8 I’ll be field-testing it in cine-style and ENG/EFP style setups. I’ll post some of my impressions of those tests on this forum. My second RED camera is #700. Yours is #918. Long before you get your camera I will have shaken down most of the aspects of using RED One in the field for mobile ENG/EFP style production. Hopefully that info will help you in your approach to #918.

Final note: in my opinion, anyone who teaches workshops or bootcamps on RED One usage, and/or writes guides or produces instructional DVDs about RED One, and fails to also include instruction and guidance on the ENG/EFP style setups and use of the camera, will have produced a very incomplete offering.
 
Yeah, Stuart also told me that there will be pre-record, an EVF that will rival the current crop (that in itself is almost worth getting one), low light capability, and (in his own words):

"As for image stabilization, there are no suitable optically stabilized lenses available at Super 16mm or 35mm, but we do have the concept of attaching external motion sensors to the camera body so that we can capture this as metadata for use in post production". - Sounds cool if it works!

Since Stuart has also worked with widlife, I know that RED will consider the needs of the field camera ops like us.

And maybe in the future RED can engineer their own lens with a CPU that will work with a modular adaptation to the camera body and allow total lens control. :D

J*
 
Oh yeah...RED One is just the starting point. Once the system delivers, I think that RED and 3rd party accessory developers will be then working hard to flesh out all the field and post workflow possibilities to maximize all the versatility and utility that are possible from the camera system. The delivery of the camera is just the beginning...
 
Final note: in my opinion, anyone who teaches workshops or bootcamps on RED One usage, and/or writes guides or produces instructional DVDs about RED One, and fails to also include instruction and guidance on the ENG/EFP style setups and use of the camera, will have produced a very incomplete offering.__________________
Gibby
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Fantastic post Gibby well done :) Hopefully Barry Green will be getting stuck in and doing a red one book ASAP after the camera ships within reason. Also hope he has read Gibbys post:beer:

On a scale of 1-10 with 1 being easy and 10 being extraordinarily difficult how would others view the workarounds Gibby described in racking focus/changing exposure if one had no experience of using manual mode at all? I suspect it will be 10:(

I read this month in a cine mag that others are in the process of making useful features that might help us with focusing with red one. I think redrock were quoted as looking into developing a focus whip and a wireless motor controlled follow focus? The fact that red reservations is over the one thousand mark with future sales (if camera rolls out with specs and performance as expected) are virtually guaranteed, will have third party developers wanting to get in on the new kid on the block company that is going places very fast by the look of things.

PS Gibby as much as i appreciated your recomendation to go down the b4 2/3rds ENG lens route i find the lens prices too expensive over $24,000 for a lens. What do you think of the red zoom used with appropriate follow focus and a combination of full sensor and windowed sensor for my type of use (fishing videos) or anyone else wish to comment
Michael
 
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mike the beginner said:
Hopefully Barry Green will be getting stuck in and doing a red one book ASAP after the camera ships within reason. Also hope he has read Gibbys post
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Barry is a very thorough, detail-conscious guy in his approach to creating instructional materials. I’m sure he’ll continue operating that way.

mike the beginner said:
On a scale of 1-10 with 1 being easy and 10 being extraordinarily difficult how would others view the workarounds Gibby described in racking focus/changing exposure if one had no experience of using manual mode at all? I suspect it will be 10
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It’s like rubbing your stomach and patting your head – a little disorienting when you first try it, but progressively easier as you practice it. It may seem like a 10 at first, but before you know it, it will seem like a 5, and if you have good manual dexterity, eye/hand coordination, and perseverance, before long it will become automatic. I’ve been doing simultaneous focus racking/exposure tweaking for so long that I really don’t have to consciously think about it while I’m doing it. If RED’s focus assist and histogram are intuitive and easy to read quickly, that will make the process much easier. I trust they will.

mike the beginner said:
I read this month in a cine mag that others are in the process of making useful features that might help us with focusing with red one. I think redrock were quoted as looking into developing a focus whip and a wireless motor controlled follow focus? The fact that red reservations is over the one thousand mark with future sales (if camera rolls out with specs and performance as expected) are virtually guaranteed, will have third party developers wanting to get in on the new kid on the block company that is going places very fast by the look of things.
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For a mobile 1-person crew, a wireless motor controlled follow focus wouldn’t be of high use, but for larger crews than 1-person, it could be very cool. I think we’ll all be pleasantly shocked at the variety of 3rd party accessories that will be developed for or adapted to RED One use – both cine-style and ENG/EFP style.

mike the beginner said:
PS Gibby as much as i appreciated your recommendation to go down the b4 2/3rds ENG lens route i find the lens prices too expensive over $24,000 for a lens. What do you think of the red zoom used with appropriate follow focus and a combination of full sensor and windowed sensor for my type of use (fishing videos) or anyone else wish to comment
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Sure you can pay up to $24k or beyond for a new B4 2/3” HD ENG zoom, but you don’t necessarily have to. I’ve found scores of used B4 2/3” HD ENG zoom lenses for sale in the $6k to $7k price range. I’ve reserved a RED 18-85mm zoom, and I’m really looking forward to using it. I’ll use a 2/3” HD ENG zoom for projects where 1080p is the highest resolution we need, and achieving 35mm DOF is not necessary. Tons of travel, nature, sports, and documentaries fit that profile. If I ever think that the footage or program will need 35mm DOF, and/or need to deliver at 2k or 4k, then I’ll shoot 4k REDCODE, using my RED 18-85, RED 300mm, and various prime lenses. For your fishing videos, if I’d decided that I was going to shoot in 4k, I’d shoot with S35 lenses, use a lightweight follow focus, a lightweight matte box, and I’d shoot them in 4k REDCODE so that storage was in-camera via RED Flash (preferable), or maybe RED Drive. The 18-85mm zoom would be OK for creative shots on the boat, but short in focal length for distant fishing action. You’d usually shoot in bright light, so perhaps you could put a doubler on the 18-85 for a longer focal length, still getting enough light. For that kind of shooting you need mostly deep DOF, so the more light you can get, thus the more you can stop the lens down, the better. If you still needed to get longer focal length from the 18-85, even after adding the doubler, and you feel the show could be acquired and mastered in 2k (why not?), then 2k Windowed in REDCODE would be the way to go, because you would be effectively extending the focal length even further because of the crop factor. That said, you’d still need a lot of light in those situations to be able to achieve a deep DOF. If you’re shooting your fishing shows from a rocking boat, then 35mm DOF and long focal length lenses obviously pose significant problems for you. Again, if the 720p screen/ 720p EVF/ focus assist/histogram all dance well together, it will make your type of production easier.

Fishing shows have some challenging issues to overcome. You rarely need shallow DOF in a fishing show, so maybe 1080p, using a 2/3" HD ENG zoom would be the best way for you to go. A manual RED One camera will definitely take some practice for you to get good at shootimg fishing shows. With practice, you’ll get there!

Hope this helps...
 
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(Even the Cinealta has an in camera automatic exposure feature).

If the Red One isn't going to do what you want it to, then you don't have to buy it. If the Cinealta will work for you, then unfotunately, that's the camera you should use.
 
Thanks so much Gibby:) It talkes up a lot of your prime social time to post replies like that, all i can say is it is appreciated no end. I have said before and i repeat. If you are ever in Scotland and need an extra red one mines is there for you. :dankk2:Michael
 
jeffry alan said:
To Blue, stop trying to insult and let the grownups talk you silly belligerent POM. You must be frustrated that you aren’t going to get a RED, is that because it will cost you over $25,000 AUD for the body with no lens?

J*
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It was actually a complement. Not surprisingly, you didn't get it.
 
Sure thing. Lookin forward to getting my Red plus zoom. Of course for some of us it's simply a cheap toy....with benefits.
 
Red Digital Cinema is making the Camera to shoot with a similar workflow to film... Just like you can take a 435 or S2 film camera out and shoot ENG with it with some modification, Red One will follow suit.. Thats part of the Modular aspect that makes Red One so great. Its designed as a Cinema camera but as Gibby explained very well, it can be used for both.
 
yeah but small and light as far as possible, please.. like a true camcorder as we expect and hope from any ENG/EFP-style camcorder.. if we wish it so modular that makes red one so great..
 
So compact that when you've finished your shoot you could almost pull it apart and stuff it in your pockets. Body in one, lens in another, battery in another, drive in another. What about the sticks? Down the ol' pants?

Like I said....almost.
 
:D yup, that said.. not all the future red shooters will be working in cine-style environment.. there will be a lot of doc run and gun shooters.. there are a lot of doc run and gun reservation holders.. indys.. the most part.. definitely..
 
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