Nightmare Scenario

P

Phil Maker

Well-known member
I'm pulling my hair out here. What I'm trying to do seems like it should be simple, but it's been anything but. All I want to do is a "burn window" time code on my video. Sounds easy right? Just nest a sequence, add a time code generator or TCR and poof, there it is, right? I wish it were that easy.

I need to deliver a DV NTSC QT, for my audio post house, that starts at 00:59:30:00 with a 2 second 2-pop, with time code burned in at 29.97 and the first frame of video at 01:00:00:00.

First off, what the heck's a 2-pop and how do I create it? I know it's tone but where and how do I find it?

Second, my frame rate is 23.98, my timeline is 23.98, but I need my time code to be at 29.97 for sound, and I need it to start at 00:59:30:00 as stated above.

Well, I tried to nest my sequence, then add a time code generator at 29.97... which works... only it starts at hour 1. I can't figure out how to start the time code at 00:59:30:00.

I also tried setting the time code in my sequence to start at 00:59:30:00, then adding a time code reader... which worked... now it starts where it suppose to, only it's 23.98 and I can't figure out how to change it to 29.97. It's a TCR, so it only reads what the sequence is already set at, so another brick wall there.

I've googled, read the manual, searched these forums... and still I'm unable to do this seemingly basic operation. Can someone please throw me a bone? Thanks!
 
a 2-pop is one frame of tone at -20db (FCP has a bars and tone generator) on every track of audio that is in use and one frame pix of a big number 2 for visual ref at TC 00:59:58:00. it is NOT 2 seconds long. it is one frame long but occurs two seconds before the start of the program. again, at 00:59:58:00.

for the burn-in timecode, use the generator, not the reader. blade the nested video at 01:00:00:00 and drop the tc plug-in after that cut starting on the hour. you don't need to provide visual time code before that.
 
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To get the bars and tone generator click on the filmstrip logo with an A in it on the bottom right corner of the VIEWER SLUG.
 
Thanks guys! I did that blade thing, didn't know you didn't need visual before hour one. I'll try the 2 pop. Thanks again!!
 
I don't understand why someone wants you to provide 29.97 code on a 23.98 project. Do they know it's natively 23.98? I bet they don't...

In any case I simply don't see how it's possible, let alone desirable. How do you use 30 numbers to count to 24? You'd be counting frames that aren't there, counting some frames as more than one, skipping frame numbers altogether or some other wild-ass thing.

I'd suggest talking to the post house and making *sure* they understand you're working at 23.98. If they *insist* it must be 29.97, then I think the only logical step is to re-render or otherwise pull up the project to 29.97. But I doubt you'll have to do that. They should be able to work just fine in 23.98. Unless they have existing footage or other locked-in 29.97 visual elements your footage must be married to.

Remember that timing-wise, audio is never actually frame-based. It's sample rate based, like 48KHz, 44.1K, 96K etc. The frame rate in audio post applications is basically a display-only thing. If they're starting audio work from scratch with your movie all they have to do is set their app (probably Pro Tools, right?) to 23.98 and they're set. If they have audio work already underway at 29.97, it gets a bit trickier, but still not as nuts as trying to glom a 29.97 code window onto a 23.98 image.

Unless there's something I'm missing here... : )
 
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I'm not sure if they know it's 23.98. I'm meeting with them tomorrow, so I'll find out then. I'm just going to take them a 23.98 version for now. Thanks all.
 
No, they wouldn't accept it at 23.98. They said it must be 29.97. So I changed the sequence settings to 29.97 and exported as a DV NTSC. It works, but it looks like crap.
 
Wouldn't accept it at 23.98? What kind of audio post house are you dealing with?

Any DAW that supports time code should have a 23.98 option. (I run post in ProTools and have no issue with this.)
 
I've done post sound work on 24 frame film projects at 29.97, but only in the videotape-based days when 24f work copies weren't possible. I wonder if your folks are still living in that tradition, not realizing they no longer need to...assuming they're not using tape to play the video. They aren't, right?

And yeah, a 24f pull-up to 29.97 looks like doggydoo. Every 4th frame is doubled, so it stutters like a mofo. The post guys are used to it though, so they don't really care as long as it ends up in sync.

But seriously...if they're running a Quicktime video in a DAW or it's synced to a similar slaved system, and they don't already have (extensive) audio work done at 29.97, they should use your 23.98 version for Pete's sake...
 
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It's pretty common for an Audio Post house to want something at 29.97. A lot of mixing stages are still tape based, and having your sequence at 29.97 makes it easier to lay it off to tape. I think you can use film tools to reintroduce 3/2 pulldown to your 23.97 sequence. If you do it right, it shouldn't look like ****.

You should also get ahold of some Academy Leader to put at the head and tail of your sequence. You put your "2-pop" at the 2 frame in the countdown sequence - that is why it is called the 2-pop. I disagree with Zac about the burn in timecode. You should start it at 00:59:30:00.
 
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