Nice video demo of the Odyssey 7Q

Mitch Gross said:
I brought this question up at a meeting the other day and our engineers are currently working to see if we can make it so that one does not have to change drives.
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Thanks Mitch, that would definitely be a major plus if you didn't have to change cards.

Quick question, why does the 240fps 2K RAW require 2 cards? Does it record to both cards simultaneously or something? Why can't 240fps just go to 1 card?
 
240fps uncompressed DNG RAW is ~680MBps so it has to write to two cards at once since each card tops out under 500MBps. The implications of that data rate and of having half you frames on each card are not great for workflow, though. Hard to imagine anyone using that with those huge limitations.

Compressed DNG or better yet highly compressed YUV would make this far more feasible. Frankly long gop wouldn't be so bad for 240fps since at that rate motion is so slow and frames are so similar anyway...
 
nyvz said:
240fps uncompressed DNG RAW is ~680MBps so it has to write to two cards at once since each card tops out under 500MBps. The implications of that data rate and of having half you frames on each card are not great for workflow, though. Hard to imagine anyone using that with those huge limitations.

Compressed DNG or better yet highly compressed YUV would make this far more feasible. Frankly long gop wouldn't be so bad for 240fps since at that rate motion is so slow and frames are so similar anyway...
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While two drives is a pain, it sounds like CD is making a utility to quickly batch the images together in sequence into a single folder on import. So they become "one" in the same amount of time as you transferring the footage to your computer. And with USB 3.0 SATA connectors being relatively cheap ($10-20 each) it's not unrealistic to have two so you can import both drives simultaneously.
 
I doubt the O7Q has the computing power on board to debayer and compress a 2k raw file at 240fps - if it did, I doubt Sony would let them record 2K Raw and instead require them to only record compressed (like they did for 4K Raw).

As I recall, when this was brought up earlier, the HFR recording records alternate frames on each card, so the programme joining the two streams just needs to put them together in the right order, which is no big shakes in terms of computer power. What will take the time is downloading the data (512gb per 10min) which would be the same they could get it on one card.
 
Complexities aside, it's all about being user friendly isn't it? I want to be able to switch frame rates and formats without having to change SSD's. I then need to be able to transfer the material in it's various modes without really thinking about it. This will require additional software (in case of HFR in 2K raw) fine as long as it's simple and seamless, which I'm assured it is. It just has to work. You've gotta feel for CD's engineers mind, they must be like "again with a request, when will it end"!
 
Being able to record 4K and 2K (in all frame rates of the FS700, including 200/240fps 2K) at ProRes 422HQ and/or ProRes 444 would be my preference. I don't have the time or hardware to cope with uncompressed or RAW. So if that is possible then I'm in!
 
There are things I can tell you and there are things I cannot. We capture the high speed 2K RAW to two drives because of the enormous data flow. Recompiling this material in post is as close to automatic as possible. We have experience from doing the same thing with our Gemini 4:4:4 recorder. The application is straightforward, but if you don't use it and just click on the folder for one "half" of the material from one of the drives, it automatically knows to find the other half and puts itself together. Really quite simple in practice.

Remember that a 2K compressed file may take up less room on your hard drive, but it also means that the compression must happen on the fly, at high frame rate. So it takes a lot of processing power to stay within the strictures of the codec. A sudden change in the shot (like popping a balloon or a camera flash) means a big change in the compression, all flying through a processor at 240fps. Doesn't mean it can't happen and doesn't mean it won't happen, but it is a very large task to do and do well.

We like a challenge. ;-)
 
Mitch Gross said:
Remember that a 2K compressed file may take up less room on your hard drive, but it also means that the compression must happen on the fly, at high frame rate. So it takes a lot of processing power to stay within the strictures of the codec. A sudden change in the shot (like popping a balloon or a camera flash) means a big change in the compression, all flying through a processor at 240fps. Doesn't mean it can't happen and doesn't mean it won't happen, but it is a very large task to do and do well.
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You are supporting interframe/LGOP codecs such as MPEG2, XAVC? 422 10-bit or more would be very useful.
 
Mitch: Is the 7 upgradable to a 7Q at a later date and what is the max frame rate for the 7? I have no need for 2 or 4k but am more interested in good compressed 10 bit in the un-named soon to be available format.

My thanks to Midtown for the review. Never noticed any flaw in the presenter - I was too intent on listening and watching the show.

Regards,
Scott
 
Hey Scott, I believe the only way to get true 10-bit 4:2:2 is with the 7Q (more expensive one) because the 10 bit is derived from the 4K Raw stream, which the regular 7 cannot access. Since the fS700 does not output a 10-bit signal, 10-bit can only come from the 4K stream.

FS700 only outputs an 8-bit signal through the SDI, so it would be an 8-bit codec in a 10-bit wrapper. Probably not what anyone is looking for.

I could be wrong though, which would actually make me happy. But I think most of us are just going to cough up the dough for the 7Q because of he 4K stream deal.
 
The above is correct, although applicable only to the FS700. The Odyssey7 will capture 10-bit 4:2:2 and even 12-bit 4:4:4 over 3G, but only if the camera is capable of producing it natively.

The record capabilities of the Odyssey7 will be similar to those of other units on the market. It outshines them in the OLED panel as well as the scopes and other image analysis tools, plus it is feather weight and can accept two SSDs for very long record times. The Odyssey7 is not upgradeable to an Odyssey7Q, and in fact there are no upgrades for the Odyssey7 at all, except for the occasional free firmware update we will provide for our products.

If you foresee the possible need for additional performance from your monitor/recorder at all, or if you wish to have a tool that can grow with you over time, then I highly recommend the Odyssey7Q. Just the fact that you will be able to record MULTIPLE CAMERAS SIMULTANEOUSLY IN HD is enough of a feature to push it over for me. Up to four HD signals at one time -- that's just amazeballs and it means that anytime you do a 2-camera shoot you can be assured of the same video quality from each source.
 
Multiple recording is an excellent feature for sure but if I'm not mistaken, that option will cost more than the unit itself, right?
 
sunnyjimfilms said:
Multiple recording is an excellent feature for sure but if I'm not mistaken, that option will cost more than the unit itself, right?
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Yes, but still less expensive than any other way to do this. And if you don't need to record but just want a monitor with up to four inputs on screen at once, the Multi-Stream Viewing functionality is included free as a standard feature on the 7Q. You only need to pay if you want to record the Mulitple streams, and if you just need it for a short job you can rent the feature rather than purchase it. Rentals are by time actually used not by date, so you switch it on at the start of the production day and if you're judicious you can get a great deal of time out of a relatively low cost.
 
Mitch Gross said:
The file name capabilities will be the same as on the Gemini 4:4:4. I believe that it is 32 character which you can address directly on the unit.
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Sorry I've never used the Gemini, so basically your saying there is some way for the file names to match EXACTLY? But surely not by manually renaming them?
 
We have the proper protocol from RED to have the filenames match exactly and automatically. It won't be implemented in the initial release but we hope to have this function enabled in the first free firmware update, which should happen fairly shortly.

BTW, we'll also have this for recording from the Sony F55, as it is the first time Sony has had such metadata travel in their SDI data stream.
 
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