NHK's 8K Chip developed - 120fps

Noel Evans

Noel Evans

Mod V3 New and Improved
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via endgaget - written by Richard Lawler

As amazing as Super Hi-Vision televisions are, most of the footage we've seen is of slow-moving cityscapes, nature and portraits. We may get more action sequences soon, thanks to a new CMOS sensor capable of picking up 8K (33MP) footage at 120 frames per second. The joint project between NHK, Shizuoka University and the Research Institute of Electronics is being shown off on the 27th at the International Solid-State Circuits Conference The chip is developed on a .18 micrometer process, with an enhanced analog to digital converter that enables the faster frame rates. That cut down data processing time and power consumption, all key to getting some sweet super high res televisions (16x more pixels than your current HDTV) in our living room sooner rather than later. Our only question? If they can build a new camera around it in time to catch the world's fastest human being do his thing at the 2012 London Olympics.
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Direct link to article. http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/25/nhk-super-hi-vision-120fps-cmos/
 
I am all for 8K.

Which is why I hate the drizzle of advancement in the HD s35 market. There is so much room for upgrading with current technology, that it is sad to see some basic advancement in HD taking soooo long. We've been adopting HD since 2003, and HD was invented in Japan when Ronald Reagan was the U.S.A president, and computers have had higher resolution for years before HD was pushed!

trickle trickle trickle....
 
James0b57 said:
I am all for 8K.

Which is why I hate the drizzle of advancement in the HD s35 market. There is so much room for upgrading with current technology, that it is sad to see some basic advancement in HD taking soooo long. We've been adopting HD since 2003, and HD was invented in Japan when Ronald Reagan was the U.S.A president, and computers have had higher resolution for years before HD was pushed!

trickle trickle trickle....
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The BBC filmed a test in 8K and sent it via the net to Japan. Here's a video of it. The guy did an enthusiastic report, though it's crazy that we are watching a report on a 8K test at youtube resolution- Ironic

Here's the BBC report on first 8K broadcast. http://excoboard.com/PappasArts/150043/1850846



Trickle is for sure. I know that this level of technology is far from being ready, however we know that the market control through tricklenomics is done. It's business in the end. So were at the mercy to some extent. That's why what Red did, by being an independent designer/manufacture of a camera system was a major shake up within the industry. They ramped up pretty damn quickly to a high level. That made guys like Sony take a 250,000 dollar camera and sell it's replacement for a near fraction. Competition is a good motivator.

Pappas
http://pappasarts.wordpress.com/
 
The WEIRDEST thing is that I watch NHK television all the time and I love Japanese dramas... but their programming looks really... how do I say it... not aethetically pleasing. Chromatic abberations everywhere, clipped highlights (you ALWAYS see yellow, magenta, cyan on highlights) and over-sharpened aliasing.

Japan, sort out proper 720p broadcast before 8K geez! Over kill... but impressive.
 
Lammy said:
The WEIRDEST thing is that I watch NHK television all the time and I love Japanese dramas... but their programming looks really... how do I say it... not aethetically pleasing. Chromatic abberations everywhere, clipped highlights (you ALWAYS see yellow, magenta, cyan on highlights) and over-sharpened aliasing.

Japan, sort out proper 720p broadcast before 8K geez! Over kill... but impressive.
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They can make the 8k, Europe can make the lenses, and US will make the movies. Or that has been the trend.
 
It's impressive, no doubt. I just don't see the point. Beyond Imax screenings, no one's eyes are going to see the extra detail compared to 4k. Circle of confusion negates the rest.

Wouldn't that bandwidth be better used for greater tonality and colour depth?
 
Grug said:
It's impressive, no doubt. I just don't see the point. Beyond Imax screenings, no one's eyes are going to see the extra detail compared to 4k. Circle of confusion negates the rest.

Wouldn't that bandwidth be better used for greater tonality and colour depth?
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I agree. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's worth anything.
 
8k for me it's like seen a new Ferrari on the street, wow, nice but where I'm gonna enjoy such a powerful and expensive machine? if my city's speed limit is only 65MPH.
 
Oh, goodie, maybe widely available in 2020, don't you see the marvelous opportunity?? I'm disappointed in you guys. Can't you see? It's the perfect excuse to wait for yet another development in cameras instead of going out and shooting, and this time you can wait all the way until 2020 - what a wonderful perfect long term excuse, a whole 8 years!

The hell with today's cameras. I'm not shooting a single thing until we get the 8K cameras! At a price of $1K or below, of course, because we're just poor indie guys on zero budget. Waiting impatiently!
 
Wow!
Really interesting but your going to need a screen double the size of an iMax to actually see a difference between 4K and 8K.
 
Ewan L said:
Wow!
Really interesting but your going to need a screen double the size of an iMax to actually see a difference between 4K and 8K.
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No true. Imax resolving power exceeds 8K. Depending on the film stock used it goes into a much much higher range. However the actual resolution of 35mm negatives is the subject of much debate let alone that of 65MM. Now if we assume that 4 perf 35mm is 4K. Imax's frame is many times that size. So it's well above 8K.


Pappas
http://pappasarts.wordpress.com/
 
Grug said:
It's impressive, no doubt. I just don't see the point. Beyond Imax screenings, no one's eyes are going to see the extra detail compared to 4k. Circle of confusion negates the rest.

Wouldn't that bandwidth be better used for greater tonality and colour depth?
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I agree with you on tonality and color.

However what if they just said " ok we feel that no one cares about 8K or higher, so we are never going to even entertain the technology".
Everyone looses. I don't see it as a filmmaking tool for the present. However as this technology inflates, it pushes down other technology that's just sitting at a grasping point right now. The new advances in technologies and processes they learn while trying to get 8K right, will show up a lot sooner in other systems... Science and technology only advances, when moving forward. If we stop. So will our advances in technology too. Those technologies also spread into all other areas, many not even to do with entertainment. Many ultra high def systems go into the medical research sector for example. I say, push the envelope until it can't go anymore in any field. Never stop!

Pappas
http://pappasarts.wordpress.com/
 
PappasArts said:
I agree with you on tonality and color.

However what if they just said " ok we feel that no one cares about 8K or higher, so we are never going to even entertain the technology".
Everyone looses. I don't see it as a filmmaking tool for the present. However as this technology inflates, it pushes down other technology that's just sitting at a grasping point right now. The new advances in technologies and processes they learn while trying to get 8K right, will show up a lot sooner in other systems... Science and technology only advances, when moving forward. If we stop. So will our advances in technology too. Those technologies also spread into all other areas, many not even to do with entertainment. Many ultra high def systems go into the medical research sector for example. I say, push the envelope until it can't go anymore in any field. Never stop!

Pappas
http://pappasarts.wordpress.com/
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Nothing wrong with pushing the technology, but 8K makes no sense in a broadcast context. Unless home viewing habits and home-multimedia setups change drastically (which I don't think is likely to happen) then the capacity to implement the technology in any meaningful way is null and void - if no one can appreciate the difference, there's no practical purpose to it.

As with all things, there's a point of diminishing returns - and with visual media, we hit that with plain old 1080p HD (most people struggle to see much difference between 1080p and 4K on a cinema screen - that makes it a point of diminishing returns).
 
The sensor is made by a Japanese company called Brookman Technology. NHK, which is a government broadcaster, has been working on 8K for a VERY long time, and this technology has passed between many hands.

http://brookmantech.com/e_technology.html

Brookman published a whitepaper on the sensor with IIWS.
http://www.imagesensors.org/Past Workshops/2011 Workshop/2011 Papers/R62_Kitamura_33M120fps.pdf (PDF)

Back in 2004 NHK showed a 8K camera that recorded onto 16 HD-SDI channels simultaneously, essentially they had four 4K cmos sensors in a 4CMOS setup (red, two greens, and a blue). For the most recent iteration to record 8K at 60 fps they used a 34 P2 card setup.

8K is indeed far from production, but not as far as you would think.

P2-Tower-cables.jpg
 
Grug said:
(most people struggle to see much difference between 1080p and 4K on a cinema screen - that makes it a point of diminishing returns).
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I see this stated pretty frequently, and I'm curious - where is the data? What "most people", what 4K footage, and what "4K cinema screens"?

Anecdotally, cinema professionals (DPs, directors, cameramen, and crew) and relatively laypeople have reported very favorable experiences with private 4K screenings. These are often tied in as promotion of products or services of some kind, so they may be exaggerated somewhat.

What I haven't heard of is a good A/B or butterfly test of some kind between 2D 2K and 2D 4K in theaters where a large cross section of the movie-going audience simply said "meh".

I'd also be interested to know how many of the year's films were shot with a camera that could produce an image that resolves 4K, edited in 4K, and actually sent out to theaters in a 4K DCP.
 
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