NEX Video Camaras Compared

[dhinds]

To date, 4 NEX models have been created specifically for video: The VG10, VG20, FS100 and the FS700 (although the VG20 corrected deficiencies of the VG10).

All of them have similar (if not the same) sensors & accept the same lenses, with (I assume), about the same cropping factor.

My questions are: Other than it's well publicized slow motion capacity, what can the FS700 do that the FS100 can't and why? And what can both of them do, that the VG-20 can't?

Thanks in advance for any detailed orientation provided.

 

[capt chuck]

FS700 -
Can output via HDSDI
Has a rocker button for a future power zoom solution
not important to everyone, but has the potential for 4k

probably some more, but those are what stand out to me.

 

[AtticusLake]

All of them have similar (if not the same) sensors ...

Actually, they all have very different sensors:

• the VG-10 has a 14.6 MP APS-C sensor;
• the VG-20 has a 16.1 MP APS-C sensor;
• the FS-100 has an HD (1920x1080) Super 35 sensor;
• and the FS-700 has a 4k (or Quad HD?) Super 35 sensor.

The high megapixel counts on the two VG models are downgraded to HD resolution (2MP) for video with decimation, or some other poor-quality scaling. This is the cause of the imaging artifacts (aliasing and moiree) I've seen in a lot of reviews of these cameras.

The FS-100 has a sensor dedicated to video -- i.e. it has the right number of pixels to begin with -- and it makes beautiful pictures. Search Vimeo for examples -- but be sure to download the originals, so you're not just looking at Vimeo's compression. (I recently switched from an FS-100 to a NEX-7 for portability and cost reasons, but I'm very disappointed with the video quality.) Also the FS-100 is a "real" movie camera; although some people find the layout awkward, the fact that all the controls are brought out to buttons, rather than being buried in menus, is golden. It's also a LOT bigger to carry around; but still pretty compact for a pro camera.

The FS-700 has a 4k sensor and at some point in the future will be able to record 4k, with an add-on recorder. This puts it up in the realm of very high-end cameras but at a stunningly low cost. Even without the 4k upgrade, the camera has true downscaling to HD, which from what I've seen gives it picture quality even better than the FS-100.

... & accept the same lenses, with (I assume), about the same cropping factor.

Yes, they're all E-mount, and as all the sensors are fairly close in physical size, the crop factors are likewise similar.

Other than it's well publicized slow motion capacity, what can the FS700 do that the FS100 can't and why?

• 4k, eventually
• better, sharper pictures now (based on reviews)
• built-in ND filters -- having used the FS-100, I'd call this a fairly big deal

And what can both of them do, that the VG-20 can't?

They're both serious, pro-level movie cameras -- not still cameras -- and it shows in the picture quality. The VGs are basically re-housed still cameras, and have all the disadvantages that go with that.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people doing incredible things with still cameras, and on super low budgets too; but if you really want a great movie camera, then you need to pay up for an actual movie camera, like one of the FS models.

 

[Nirv]

I think you missed the auto focus assist functionality of the FS700 over the FS100. In fact, for me, these assists are the most compelling reason to get the FS700 over the FS100.

I've had a change of heart on ND Faders vs built in NDs since buying the Heliopan. It's much better than I could ever have believed and is way less reflective and much sharper than the Genus dross I have been suffering. I'd be tempted to use it on a FS700 if I had one.

4K? Well, wait until the box is released, the price could be fearsome which could rule it out of all but the deepest pockets. I can't believe it'll be allowed to trounce Sony's Cinealta product line and be affordable.

 

[ed_lee83]

(I recently switched from an FS-100 to a NEX-7 for portability and cost reasons,

Wow, that's quite a downgrade. Bummer.

I'm a new FS100 user and I weighed heavily the pro's for a FS700. I just thought I'd get bored of the slow-mo capability and so wasn't worth that extra dough. And I wouldn't use for 90% of my commercial work. If I really needed super slow mo function for a particular shoot I'd just rent one - ought to be cheaper than a RED or Phantom?

 

[AtticusLake]

Wow, that's quite a downgrade. Bummer.

Yeah, really. I though the NEX-7 would be good enough for my modest needs, but like the hangman said when he had a Duke for a client, "Once I've used the silken rope, I can never again be satisfied with hemp."

I'm a new FS100 user and I weighed heavily the pro's for a FS700. I just thought I'd get bored of the slow-mo capability and so wasn't worth that extra dough. And I wouldn't use for 90% of my commercial work. If I really needed super slow mo function for a particular shoot I'd just rent one - ought to be cheaper than a RED or Phantom?

Makes sense to me -- the 100 is awesome, and you can get pretty decent slow-mo with 60p + Twixtor.



("Kind Hearts and Coronets" for the hangman quote, in case you're wondering... :laugh

 

[Kraut69]

I think you missed the auto focus assist functionality of the FS700 over the FS100. In fact, for me, these assists are the most compelling reason to get the FS700 over the FS100.

.

Please elaborate, that's news to me, thanks.

 

[thehadgi]

I did see a demo of the focus assist... seems quick, although I dunno how I'd use it if I did


Since the majority of things I want to do would be great in slow-motion (music video related), the FS700 just seems like it can't be beat at the price (or well above either). If I didn't care about slow-mo, I probably would just end up with a DSLR :-O

Now if there was only a way to finance this thing instead of having to wait months for it... damn my impatience

 

[Nirv]

Please elaborate, that's news to me, thanks.

Spot focussing, face tracking and focus racking etc etc.

I would certainly use these tools in production especially when working light and on a steadicam.

Proof of the pudding is in the eating so we'll have to see how they are under production conditions but they do look useful.

 

[rotierney]

Picture profiles alone do it for me on the FS700

 

[paulcurtis]

Spot focussing, face tracking and focus racking etc etc.
I would certainly use these tools in production especially when working light and on a steadicam.
Proof of the pudding is in the eating so we'll have to see how they are under production conditions but they do look useful.

Do you know whether they're for e mount lenses only or whether it also works with the LA-EA2 lenses? That's not been made clear AFAIK. Have you seen some demo videos?

Face tracking focus on a steadicam. I'd bet money that would produce seriously amusing results! Even so it is a definite plus on the 700. I don't think any body only ones are shipping til the end of july. (Fingers tapping patiently)

As for the various cameras, the VG10 is a NEX5, the VG20 is a NEX5N. I have both of those (well had the 5) and they are fantastic stills cameras and useful as a B cam but totally different league to the FS in both quality and ergonomics. I think there were some build issues with the VG too. Now, if they'd put a different OLPF on the VG series then they would be a step up from the NEX cameras in terms of aliasing. But they didn't and so you're better off with a 5N than a VG20.


cheers
paul

 

[MattDavis]

I tried the face tracking and spot focus features -

The face tracking 'tames' the autofocus features of Sony E-mount lenses with servo focus (feels as accurate as picking your nose with mittens on), but in R&G and snatched voxpops, it work fine.

Tracking someone walking towards the camera? Tried it, only partially successful - easy for it to get bogged down as your talent strides towards you. May be better if you were dollying down a corridor with your presenter following you. Maybe this is what the single-op stabilizer flyers were looking for.

LE-EA2 is a different technology, the lens adaptor contains all the smarts.

And regarding the OP - nobody's mentioned CineGamma yet! It makes the highlight handling significantly better. Try CineGamma 3 with at least a check for black level in contrasty situations. That was my 'Gotta Have One' moment.

 

[paulcurtis]

Thanks Matt, you did show this a while back in another thread. I'm wondering whether there are any samples with the camera in motion, tracking a face. Curious more than anything else.

The LA-EA2 *could* allow for this via phase detect but i'd imagine there would be a fair amount of work in it. Plus it could be driven by the camera and contrast detect because i'd imagine all the lens is doing is responding to movement requests from the camera (the CDAF stuff is in camera, not lens). With the SSM zooms which seem pretty quiet and accurate it might be a workable combination. So the FS700 guys might have done something with the algorithms for CDAF to pre-empt focusing and directions of travel. A pre-programmed focus pull would be nice to have too if not full on tracking.

Don't tell me i might find a use for that little 16mm emount on a steadicam...

So Matt, where's your 700 then?

I'm in a list for body only which i believe is quite a bit further down the line...

cheers
paul

 

[Nirv]

but in R&G and snatched voxpops, it work fine.

Tracking someone walking towards the camera? Tried it, only partially successful - easy for it to get bogged down as your talent strides towards you. May be better if you were dollying down a corridor with your presenter following you. Maybe this is what the single-op stabilizer flyers were looking for.

LE-EA2 is a different technology, the lens adaptor contains all the smarts.

Those are pretty much what I had in mind especially the walking down the corridor with bod in front of camera. Thinking about the extra weight and bulk of the FS700 I might struggle with flying it with my neck/back.

How does the FS700 compare to FS100+LA-E2+Alpha lens? Maybe the FS700 focus assist aren't worth the upgrade then and I can do no worse than to get the LA-E2 and some Alpha glass instead?

When the LA-E2 is attached to the FS100 do you get any control over it or additional menu options with the latest firmware?

@Paul, the 16mm is great on the steadicam but that's about all it's good for. Not the best use of £200 so far!

 

[MattDavis]

Oops, bumped into Nirv's reply

@Paul, Same here, luckily I am neck deep in editing, and my Olympics contract is probably EX1 based. Sigh, the 700 will have to wait. *sob*

Actually, I did shoot some tracking shots, but I didn't think they were worth sharing - it was a bit of an unfair test, as I think we were over stretching the capabilities. Hence it will be good to do it on one of my famous 'Lou and Andy' wheelchair shots.

@Nirv, the LE-EA2 does have some fine tuning in the FS700 menu, but I haven't played with one since the FS100 firmware upgrade.

 

[ectobuilder]

Exposure latitude of the AVCHD codec produced by BOTH the FS100 and FS700 is significantly more filmic and therefore higher than the VG20.

The VG20 is at best a consumer camera with consumer internal codec and processing while the FS100 and FS700 are in a league of their own. I call them the high efficiency bang for buck indie camcorders.