NeedCreative
Well-known member
Even looking on a 5K monitor I can't tell a difference.
Newsshooter: Sony A7RII overheats and shutdown after recording 4K for a while
- Thread starter Nicholas Natteau
- Start date
Even looking on a 5K monitor I can't tell a difference.
NeedCreative
Well-known member
What do you mean where is the problem? Unless this is sarcasm and I didn't get it.
A 4K external recorder is 2000$ more plus media, pushing the price of the system to 5500-6000 thousand US Dollars. And even if we live in a world where money is no problem whatsoever, you have to carry a 7 inch monitor block of hardware on the hotshoe of the phone-sized A7r II whilst shooting and rely on a micro HDMI cable.
You can't find where the problem is with a camera that needs to cool down after every 20 minutes of shooting, and sometimes 3 minutes, completely unpredictably?
I have no idea what would be a problem if this isn't
It depends on what you're doing, but I can't disagree with this. If you're doing a paid job that requires no room for error you need to use a real video camera. That's why I have an FS7. That's why I have an external recorder. But if you want to capture B roll, or stolen shots, or anything that requires an extremely light small set up with still the same video quality, then the temperature of limitations are something you can work around. I just would never rely on that says the only camera unless I had a recorder attached to it which kind of defeats the purpose... But still makes it a viable backup if my FS7 breaks. Heck even the RX 100 Mark IV with a recorder has been proven to be a viable backup, if unwieldy!
NeedCreative
Well-known member
NeedCreative
Well-known member
Yes and no. Mostly yes. I say mostly because I can't take A7S outside by itself and shoot any 4K anything. With this camera I can at least capture B roll, inconspicuous shots and so forth, I would say 10 minute clips which is usually plenty, and use it normally. OK, shut it off between takes but you get the idea. I cannot do that with the A7s; it's simply limited to HD. I also cannot use all my prime lenses handheld with the a7S, they are just too jittery. But with this camera the IBIS opens me up to many more possibilities.
Now, yes, if you want to shoot without worrying about overheating and are on a tripod or using IS lenses, than you are right back to you in a7S with recorder set up. So purely for video, the A7S works great. And it's cleaner by about one stop comparing the same ISO between both cameras.
Where the A7RII difference is that it offers more possibilities. And body stabilization. The ability to capture 4K internally for relatively short clips. The ability to auto focus at all with third-party lenses. And yes, vastly easier to focus and far, far more detailed stills. I think the still photography is the primary selling point of this camera, and the fact that you can do a little bit more than you can in video as well with the Alpha 7S makes it a compelling buy.
It's not designed to replace an FS7. For people that want a cheaper version of that camera keep waiting... I'm sure they will come out eventually in some form, but the laws of thermodynamics will always present limitations until the chips can get cooler. The small body is simply a limitation.
An interesting comparison is the RX 100 Mark IV. Same thing, you can shoot on a recorder as long as you want but with that camera because it's so small you have to keep your shots down to about one minute. Yet it fits in your pocket, takes very nice 20mp stills, and has an amazingly sharp lens. I can actually not distinguish to the just to the eye on a 5k screen between the quality of the video from that camera and A7RII Given the same ISOA, decent light, and same depth of field. That's astonishing. Can I use it as a main camera? Of course not. Who can limit their shots to one minute without planning extensively? And forget about extremely high ISO But it does offer me the ability to capture amazingly good-looking 4k that I can easily can cut in with my much more expensive cameras when I simply couldn't before because I didn't want to carry a big camera around with me everywhere. Opportunity costs, in all directions.
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
Ebrahim, as everything in life : D yes and no. I've already posted somewhere else my thoughts on topic:What do you mean where is the problem? Unless this is sarcasm and I didn't get it.
A 4K external recorder is 2000$ more plus media, pushing the price of the system to 5500-6000 thousand US Dollars. And even if we live in a world where money is no problem whatsoever, you have to carry a 7 inch monitor block of hardware on the hotshoe of the phone-sized A7r II whilst shooting and rely on a micro HDMI cable.
You can't find where the problem is with a camera that needs to cool down after every 20 minutes of shooting, and sometimes 3 minutes, completely unpredictably?
I have no idea what would be a problem if this isn't
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...-while&p=1986566799&highlight=#post1986566799
E
PS: LOL NeedCreative, no idea we were thinking the same posting practically at same time...
Last edited:
klas
Active member
The report doesn't say anything about the length of the shots. He might as well have shot continuously while framing shots and then missed shots as it overheated.
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
Not even softening faces and adding selective masks as same as seems to happen with a Shogun coupled to a7S?
dustylense
Veteran
Regardless, it overheated and he had to wait for it to cool down. A simple interview piece on a street performer. Which to me means, not production capable. I wouldn't even try and use this camera on a simple corporate shoot. "hey, take lunch, again, for the third time while the camera cools down".
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
QFT this camera is not ready for primetime.
dustylense
Veteran
I'm not so sure the camera is ready for the late late show.
Did some of my own tests re: Overheating. I opened out the back screen, so it was as far away from the body as possible.
4k 25p, super 35, peaking on, zebra on, steady shot on = recorded for full 29 minutes
Then immediately same settings, but Full Frame = again full 29 minutes
Changed battery at this point.
Back to Super 35, at this point it shut down after about 15 minutes with a temperature warning.
Switched it back on straight away and got another 5 minutes before same warning and turn off.
And scene.
I've shot a load with this camera, shooting quick bursts of anything from 5 seconds to 2 minutes in very hot conditions and had no trouble. But this is definitely something for me to keep in mind if/when I decide to use for a long interview.
4k 25p, super 35, peaking on, zebra on, steady shot on = recorded for full 29 minutes
Then immediately same settings, but Full Frame = again full 29 minutes
Changed battery at this point.
Back to Super 35, at this point it shut down after about 15 minutes with a temperature warning.
Switched it back on straight away and got another 5 minutes before same warning and turn off.
And scene.
I've shot a load with this camera, shooting quick bursts of anything from 5 seconds to 2 minutes in very hot conditions and had no trouble. But this is definitely something for me to keep in mind if/when I decide to use for a long interview.
Erik Naso
Veteran
Clearly the camera cant get the heat out and builds up until it has to shut down. What a bummer.....
If you record internally does that result in the (tax imposed?) 29 minute recording time limit?
If so, then there's one thing different between triggering recording on the camera compared to the shogun, triggering recording via the camera must start the camera keeping a track of recording time, so it can impose the 29 minute upper recording time limit. It seems ridiculous that this could be the cause of overheating, but it's not impossible. Maybe there's an infinite loop in the code somewhere burning up CPU cycles and generating heat.
Maybe there _is_ a difference that's not apparent from your test scene on your monitor. Maybe when the camera initiates recording it changes to some higher quality image processing to get a better recorded picture, but this causes the camera to overheat. (unlikely..).
On the other hand, assuming the image quality is the same, maybe the camera is doing something different when it's triggering recording internally that it shouldn't be. eg Writing to the internal memory card as some sort of buffer? Does recording to the Shogun work with no internal memory card inserted? I've never noticed a CF/SD card reader get hot at all, even reading/writing at max speed, but this is possible?
Last edited:
What frame rate/bit rate have people with overheating cameras been shooting at?
Looking in the manual there are 6 settings for recording 3840x2160 video, namely 24p, 25p and 30p each at 60mb/s or 100mb/s
Does the camera still overheat at lower bit rates?
The bit rate should have no effect on the HDMI output (but maybe it does for some wierd reason) but fps must affect HDMI out. Maybe when you use the camera to trigger external recording the frame rate output over HDMI also changes, affecting heating?
(Just some random thoughts, I really want to buy this camera - but only if it actually works!)
Looking in the manual there are 6 settings for recording 3840x2160 video, namely 24p, 25p and 30p each at 60mb/s or 100mb/s
Does the camera still overheat at lower bit rates?
The bit rate should have no effect on the HDMI output (but maybe it does for some wierd reason) but fps must affect HDMI out. Maybe when you use the camera to trigger external recording the frame rate output over HDMI also changes, affecting heating?
(Just some random thoughts, I really want to buy this camera - but only if it actually works!)
Last edited:
klas
Active member
That sounds great. Maybe I can use this camera after all.
I only shoot controlled narrative stuff and have no need for 20 minute takes. If it is reliable for five-seven minute takes I'm fine.25p at 100mb/s
Will give it a test now at 25p 60mb/s and see if it makes a difference.
I did a run test yesterday with 4k, FF, 60mbps, IBIS on, and back-to-back 29+ min takes - no issues but the camera is hot. The battery died at 29:40 of the second take. Not bad - 59+ minutes of recording with the LCD on the whole time. The overheat warning came on during the third take after the battery swap, it shut down just before the 10 min, so just about 70 minutes with 4k at the lower bitrate. I let it rest for 3 minutes and recorded another 29+ min take. Then I went to 1080/60p and hit the max record time with no temp warning and the battery was at 3%. I had no more charged batteries. It won't work for everyone, but its fine for my needs. The bottom of the camera does get noticably warmer than the rest of the body. Crop mode seems to generate more heat. The battery gets hot too. I'm ordering an external battery to try USB power or with a dummy battery in the camera, and a grip to see if it makes a difference.
For me the overheating is a non-issue so far, my stuff is very much like I did when I shot ENG - lots of short takes. I shut the camera off frequently and put it in airplane mode to preserve the battery, that helps. The A7RII is much quicker to startup than any other Sony camera I've used - its almost instant and as good as my 5d3. Its shocking how much faster it powers up compared to the A7s/A7II. For paid work it serves my needs. If you need to record 4k for hours on end this isn't the camera for you. This isn't a mini FS7, but its still a powerhouse hybrid camera.
In the end it looks like a big sensor and all the processing means lots of heat. So far I haven't gotten a temp warning in 1080p at max bitrate. Some will say just get the A7s for 1080p, but IBIS and the 42mp stills are pretty awesome by themselves. Even the crop mode on this cam gets you a better photo than any m43 camera and most Canon's. And the A7s still can't do 4k without a recorder. If I need longer record times I can get a recorder - the Pix looks pretty good and barely used Shogun's are popping up. But so far the A7RII is a winner for me.
EDIT: I did back to back takes in 1080/60p and both times it ran to the max. The camera was warm, but nothing like it was with 4k crop. So far it looks like 1080p is only limited by your battery supply.
For me the overheating is a non-issue so far, my stuff is very much like I did when I shot ENG - lots of short takes. I shut the camera off frequently and put it in airplane mode to preserve the battery, that helps. The A7RII is much quicker to startup than any other Sony camera I've used - its almost instant and as good as my 5d3. Its shocking how much faster it powers up compared to the A7s/A7II. For paid work it serves my needs. If you need to record 4k for hours on end this isn't the camera for you. This isn't a mini FS7, but its still a powerhouse hybrid camera.
In the end it looks like a big sensor and all the processing means lots of heat. So far I haven't gotten a temp warning in 1080p at max bitrate. Some will say just get the A7s for 1080p, but IBIS and the 42mp stills are pretty awesome by themselves. Even the crop mode on this cam gets you a better photo than any m43 camera and most Canon's. And the A7s still can't do 4k without a recorder. If I need longer record times I can get a recorder - the Pix looks pretty good and barely used Shogun's are popping up. But so far the A7RII is a winner for me.
EDIT: I did back to back takes in 1080/60p and both times it ran to the max. The camera was warm, but nothing like it was with 4k crop. So far it looks like 1080p is only limited by your battery supply.
Last edited:
Just did another test myself at 60 mb/s. First half hour was full frame. then switched to Crop and it shut off after 15 mins. So it looks like 60/100 makes no difference. And like Chris Joy said above, crop seems to cause more heat.
Was a warmer night than when I tested it yesterday, when I got an hour and 10 minutes out of it. Will try a 1080p one at some point.
Re: external battery heat, I just got my Varavon in the post today so wanted to try it out. Unfortunately it keeps cutting out with a loose connection.... see here: https://vimeo.com/135858625 Password: Varavon
I've given them an email and a link to the video, hopefully they will offer a solution/replacement asap. Pretty annoying.
Same for me. I'll see if I change my mind in a few months time!
Was a warmer night than when I tested it yesterday, when I got an hour and 10 minutes out of it. Will try a 1080p one at some point.
Re: external battery heat, I just got my Varavon in the post today so wanted to try it out. Unfortunately it keeps cutting out with a loose connection.... see here: https://vimeo.com/135858625 Password: Varavon
I've given them an email and a link to the video, hopefully they will offer a solution/replacement asap. Pretty annoying.
Same for me. I'll see if I change my mind in a few months time!
