newbie getting ready for a project

A

arlo

New member
I'm new to this world, so just pretend I'm a real mouth breather and be patient...

I've been reading a lot of threads and have a couple of questions. One is if you were getting ready to do a documentary and were starting from scratch, what are your thoughts on:

  • 35mm adaptor
  • External monitor to help with focusing
  • Storage

I'd really appreciate any tips on particular brands. I'm also seeing talk of rails, but I'm not sure what it is.

On the storage, I'm not sure if I should be going with a few P2 cards or if I should go with, say, one and capture the video straight onto a hard drive. My understanding is I'd need to use my macbook pro as a bridge. On the other hand, portability would be nice.

Thanks, I've enjoyed reading through the threads and can't wait to get this project going.
 
If its a follow people around and go all over the place and lots of handheld type of documentary then I would stay away from the 35mm adapter. Too much hassle in my opinion. If its more of a locked down thing where people are coming to you and not so much "run and gun" then a 35mm would be more usable to me. If you do decide to go with dont forget you'll probably need a good set of rails, lenses (of course), and perhaps a matte box and follow focus.
If you arent using a 35mm adapter I would ditch the external monitor unless you really are that more comfortable using it. The HVX's magnify and zooming in is plenty for me to nail focus with stock lcd. If you do go with the 35mm adapter it would be a lot more helpful especially if needed for flipping the image.

I prefer to run up to 3 8 gb cards (rarely do I NEED three) and offload to a laptop while I'm shooting. Helps to have an assistant if going this route. I just dont like being permanantly tethered to a laptop, but other use that workflow with great success.

Good luck with it all - and keep us posted as to how its going!
 
Thanks for the info! The more I look at it, the more I'm thinking I will keep it simple on this first project and stay away from the 35mm adaptor. I don't necessarily need the artsy film look, but I have been very impressed with the footage that I've seen and it's tempting to have that set up.

However, I see it creating a lot of complications with respect to portability and focusing as well as additional cost.

I'm also looking at the JVC prohd 200 and the EX1. Kind of hard to decide where the issues are that I should be focusing on. I keep hearing about workflow and the P2. Any guidance there? Thanks again.
 
Yes, 35mm adapters can be a hassle when you just want to shoot. If you want the depth-of-field advantages, think about going with the HPX-500 instead. It's 2/3" sensor shoots much like 16mm.

If I were buying the HVX for doc work, I'd get a firestore. You don't need the mobility as much as the capacity. Of course, I'd keep a card or two handy for unique situations.

If you're doing docs in the deep wilderness, I wouldn't reccommend the HVX (unless you're in sub-zero temperatures). It's tough to find battery power to work with all that data. Being able to record to MiniDV tapes might be worth the quality trade-off if you don't have power.
 
I've been shooting with my HVX for two years now and one of the projects was a feature doc. As you may have guessed by now, choosing the HVX really depends on what your project content is and what future projects may be in store for you. Likewise, the gear associated will be dictated by these things as well.
Personally, I have never seen the attraction to a firestore (no offense ProfessoU). For the cost of a firestore you can buy something much more versatile... A laptop. If it's mobility you need, stick with P2 cards. If you are out shooting b-roll or man on the street and have two 8 gig P2 cards (shooting 720/24pn), 20 min. at a cafe for transferring the footage will be a welcome break. You'd be hard pressed to shoot more than 6 cards a day (unless you really didn't like your editor). That's 2 breaks a day + a final ingest at the end of the day. And one of those breaks is lunch.

When using a Macbookpro be aware you should buy a Duel adapter... http://www.duel-systemsadapters.com/
I roll with an older G4 so I don't know all the ins and outs of this workflow. You should search the forums.
Also, for sit down interviews, I assume you will need an express card to firewire adaptor. Again, I work with the G4 so I use a PCMCIA to firewire. The reason for this is that you need to ingest the camera firewire on a different bus than the external drive. You need a 7200 rpm drive and the internal drive is not fast enough on a G4. I assume the same with a Macbook Pro.
 
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So would you use the HVX all over again if doing a documentary as opposed to some other choices like the Sony and JVC? I'd like to stay around $12k total on equipment (computer/software not included).
 
I certainly would. I'm sure the HDV format has come a long way since it's introduction into the industry. However, Panasonic DVC pro HD is a real HD codec. HDV is not. You are most likely to have less problems in post and you are not going to have an issue selling the footage to a network. Besides, once you shoot on P2 you will be reluctant to shoot on tape again. I also think you will probably have less problems if you are planing to transfer to film.

I think $12k is a reasonable amount to spend on a cam package for doc work. Again, it really depends on what you are doing. Your basic gear in most instances will be a camera, P2 cards (or tape), good tripod, light kit, lavs, shotgun, etc... I personally have only spent $10k on my package, but maybe a package like mine may not be enough for what you have in mind for your project.

I bought my camera new because I wanted the phone to ring. Having one of the hottest cameras on the market seems to produce phone calls. However, I generally buy used (especially cars). Consider this option. The HVX can be difficult to find used, but with the new RED cameras coming out there should be some used HVXs available soon. I'll hopefully be selling my HVX in about two-three months.
 
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if youre new to the game, i say steer clear of 35mm adapters for now. there is enough to worry about without adding that to your plate.

i got my brevis (the simplest of all the adapters in my opinion) about 8 months ago mainly because it was the only one that didnt require a rails setup. i learned QUICKLY that though rails werent "required" they were NEEDED to get the best results. so i got a rails setup and the mount to attach the adapter to the rails. THEN i discovered that you really need a follow focus in order to change focus without nudging the camera - blah, blah, blah... so the next thing you know:

$1000 adapter
$3000 rails (i got the full blown zacuto rig - you can get rail setups MUCH cheaper)
$150 mount
$600 follow focus
$1200 handful of lenses (nikon 110, 85, 35, 55)
and now im looking at a mattebox!

you can fake DOF by moving the camera a good ways from the subject and just zooming in more than normal.

you can get away without an external HD monitor, but my life sure got easier when i got one! weve discussed them ad nauseum. search the forum for nebtek, totevision, marshall and ikan. they all make fine products. the biggest issue with an external monitor is where do you mount it? you can use the existing shoe on the camera. but there will be many shots where thats not convenient. so then you get into the area of mounting arms and shoulder mounts (this is where i decided to go with the full blown zacuto rig - shown here: http://understandinc.com/samples/IMG_0136.JPG) there are about 12 different shoulder mounts out there from $50 to $2000 or more. and IMO, NONE of them is perfect. though i love my zacuto, there are things its not suited for. i also have the $60 cb107 (i think thats what its called) which is more or less just a piece of metal with a counter balance. still other times i just end up carrying a naked hvx cradled on my forearm running in autofocus mode. point here being is that no matter what you get - there is always something else you'll want or need for specific situations. and i havent even mentioned remote lens controls that you'll need if you go with a shoulder/rails setup... ; )

as far as storage goes (im guessing you are referring to hard drive storage?) i work day to day on a caldigit svr-duo esata raid and its great! but i also have various owc firewire800 drives that i like a lot. and i have a couple of the newer gen maxtor (800/400/usb2) onetouch lll drives that i bought while in the field on projects that so far are doing just fine. this is a subject open to wide debate. but id say clear of LaCie products if at all possible.

where are you on lights? for docu shooting thats a whole other ball of wax...

okay, i'll shut up now.
 
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Great advice, fellas. I really appreciate it.

I'm going to try and keep it basic and get this first project under my belt and then figure additional needs will become obvious. I'm still unsure about storage. I read the thread about corrupted transfers. That makes me a little leery of relying on my macbook pro to dump everything down to an external firewire drive. Maybe I need a Firestore? At any rate, I'll invest in a high quality cable. That's something I can control as opposed to software glitches.

I'm expecting to take hours of video per day for a week or so on location. I don't mind investing in a little raid tower. Any thoughts on this?

On lights, I'm looking at a kit from Lowel that runs around $650. Seems pretty compact.

I'm interested in that shoulder rig you have pictured. I like how that external monitor is mounted. Does it shoot lasers? I'd rule the planet with a laser shooting shoulder mounted rig.

Thanks!
 
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