Blade Borge
Well-known member
Let's say I have an XLR cable and it's not long enough to get connected between the mic and mixer/camera. Is it bad protocol to connect two XLR cables to make the reach or should I just buy a longer cable? Thanks.
Newb question: XLR protocol
- Thread starter Blade Borge
- Start date
it is a dual analog and digital bandwidth so I would say don't connect 2 if possible. So if you have time, go get a longer one, important to not use too much length because the more cable the more degradation and the more chances for it to get damaged and so on.
Long and short, it's allowable, not recommended, but as a short term fix, definitely acceptable. Wouldn't make a habit of it. Better to have multiple lengths of XLR. I have 5 or 6 cables between 3 ft and 40 ft. plus a few really short ones that aren't as tough but should never be laying on the ground like the longer ones will be.
Long and short, it's allowable, not recommended, but as a short term fix, definitely acceptable. Wouldn't make a habit of it. Better to have multiple lengths of XLR. I have 5 or 6 cables between 3 ft and 40 ft. plus a few really short ones that aren't as tough but should never be laying on the ground like the longer ones will be.
I'm not sure what this is about. Connecting shorter cables to make a longer run isn't a problem and is done often. While it works perfectly well, there are only two concerns with connecting cables:
1) The connection can be interrupted (pulled/yanked out of place). Make sure to put some gaffer's tape around the two barrels to cover the joint and help keep them in place. Tie or tape the cables down where possible, and cover them with something like a Yellowjacket if there is any risk of vehicles rolling over the cables.
2) Each time you add a connection in a signal chain, it can introduce some noise and/or signal degradation (marginal, and not necessarily, but it can happen especially with cheap cables and connectors). For connecting two XLR cables to lengthen the run, it's not going to be an issue.
Considering those two things, a single cable is always going to be more fool-proof, but two cables are not going to impact your feed (I certainly wouldn't want to string a dozen 3' cables together). That said, a decent kit always has several lengths of cable at hand... and always buy cables in pairs. If one fails, you have a backup. Get some shorties (3') for mixer/recorder interconnect, wireless receiver>mixer, and other patches. Have a couple of 10' or 15' cables for boom>mixer if your boom/fishpole is internally cabled. Always keep a couple of 25' cables (a pretty standard length), and then have a couple of 50' cables just in case.
As far as "too much length", consider that traditional snakes for live concerts and theater/stadium installations can run up to 250'. Of course, some newer systems are using digital, ethernet-based snakes, but there are still plenty of cable snakes out there that run considerable distances without problems. These are all balanced signals... I wouldn't go much past 10' for an unbalanced signal (RCA connection, 1/4" or 1/8" TS, or any three-conductor wired for 2-channel analog).
For what it's worth, PSC makes 25' ENG snakes for mixer>camera (2 XLR sends with a 1/8" headphone return) with breakaway cables (quick disconnect at the camera end). They also have extensions for those snakes in lengths of 15', 25', 50', and 75'. Never had a problem with one.
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NO! Having worked in the Coffey Sound rental department, I can tell you putting any kind of Gaff tape on any part of an XLR cable is not cool. It leaves residue and is a pain to deal with. If you are going to put tape over the connectors, use paper tape, and make sure to wrap it thoroughly. It is easier to remove at the end of the day and doesn't leave gunk all over the cable and connector. I can't tell you the amount of frustration I have experience having to clean cables from people that used gaff tape on them.
I have never had any issues using gaffer's tape on the metal-meets-metal seam. I always fold a tab from the last little bit to make it easy to begin removal.
And I have never had any issues using gaff tape to secure a cable run to a concrete (or carpet) floor during productions. As long as it is not left there long-term, residue won't be a problem.
The worst problems I have had with gaff tape on mic cables are when I have gotten them back from loans/rentals to find that the tape was wrapped around the cable upon striking the production, instead of being removed completely. Duct tape is an absolute no-no. Any tape - even paper tape - will leave residue after a certain period of time. But I have used it for years in live broadcast doing ENG and EFP out of a truck, and in studio productions. Tape the cables down at the beginning of the day, pull it up at the end of the day. Never, ever did I have an issue with residue.
By the way, there is a special tape made for securing cable runs across floors that has a non-adhesive center channel, if you're really that concerned about it.
I'm sorry that you've had bad experiences... not surprising on the rental side of things (folks don't treat equipment well if they don't have a personal investment in it), but the stern "NO!" is a little unnecessary. Gaff tape is acceptable, widely used, and perfectly harmless as long as the user knows how and when to remove it.
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Sorry if it came off as a little stern, but I've just had too many negative experiences with gaff tape and xlr cable. Paper tape usually doesn't leave a residue, which is why people use it. That's why I've used it a ton of times when taping cables on cars for recording cars, or for protecting XLR connections as mentioned above, or for taping cable down to the floor or ground. I've never been a big fan of gaff, tape, but that is a personal preference, and using it for certain things isn't wrong, it's just the way I work.
I do use gaff tape instead of duct tape for home stuff.
Sorry. Didn't mean to get this off topic. To get back on point...I do agree with your first post, Alex, that daisy chaining xlr cable isn't optimal, but it won't kill your signal. I've done it a few times in a pinch, and haven't had an issue with it. As far as length goes...when I used to do monitor mixing for live outdoor music we had to daisy chain two 250' snakes to front of house for a really big show we did, and we didn't have any issues.
I do use gaff tape instead of duct tape for home stuff.
Sorry. Didn't mean to get this off topic. To get back on point...I do agree with your first post, Alex, that daisy chaining xlr cable isn't optimal, but it won't kill your signal. I've done it a few times in a pinch, and haven't had an issue with it. As far as length goes...when I used to do monitor mixing for live outdoor music we had to daisy chain two 250' snakes to front of house for a really big show we did, and we didn't have any issues.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
I thought I would add to this. When Dave says "paper tape" he is talking about "board tape", it's white and has an adhesive that is designed to be cleanly removable. Masking tape is also "paper tape" but you definitely do NOT want to use it. It will leave gunk and the adhesive gets hard if the tape gets cold and then you have to scrape it off. Gaff tape has a much stronger adhesive so I will usually use board tape when taping to things where gaff might take the finish off. Duct Tape (that usually silver but some times black plasticy tape you can get in hardware stores) is designed to be permanently applied to duct work and it's adhesive will leave a lot of gunk behind. Pretty much all tape if only left on for a short time will come off pretty clean. Most tape left on for a long time will get gooey. Gaff and board tape are designed to stay on longer and not leave a mess BUT if you leave the tape on for days/ weeks you will probably have some gunk when you take them off. For less than say 48 hours I have never seen either leave any gunk behind. I would go with gaff for securing connectors because board tape is designed to give you a writable surface that is removable, not for strength. If your taping something to secure it you really want something that has more strength than paper.
I have had gaff come off clean after years of being on something. Buy a lot depends on conditions and what it's stuck on. If the temperature stays in the middle and your on a non reactive surface like metal it's probably fine for a long time. If your getting temperature extremes (especially hot) and your on something like a cable where the chemicals in the sheth are off gassing (heat) and reacting with the adhesive your window of happiness shrinks a lot.
I'm sure he got a lot of cables coming back where people left the tape on a long time in the sun and reused it over and over (gaff isn't cheap) and in cases like that you have a big mess that is a pain to clean off. Been there and it isn't fun. It's part of the reason people don't lend cables to people they don't know well and trust.
I have had gaff come off clean after years of being on something. Buy a lot depends on conditions and what it's stuck on. If the temperature stays in the middle and your on a non reactive surface like metal it's probably fine for a long time. If your getting temperature extremes (especially hot) and your on something like a cable where the chemicals in the sheth are off gassing (heat) and reacting with the adhesive your window of happiness shrinks a lot.
I'm sure he got a lot of cables coming back where people left the tape on a long time in the sun and reused it over and over (gaff isn't cheap) and in cases like that you have a big mess that is a pain to clean off. Been there and it isn't fun. It's part of the reason people don't lend cables to people they don't know well and trust.
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Noiz2,
That's exactly the type of tape I'm talking about. I've used the white stuff in the studio in the way you described, and I use the black for other stuff. You can get it in all kinds of colors (same with gaff tape). I would usually have a roll of 1" hot pink tape to mark spots where people had to watch their step. You can get it in 1" and 2", if I remember correctly.
Here's a trick if you want to keep people from putting gaff tape on the actual cable: Clean the XLR cable with Armorall, and leave a little bit of the armorall on the cable. Not enough to make it messy, but enough that the cable looks great, and nothing sticks to it if you try to wrap tape around it. You can still tape it down to the ground when you need to, but the armorall helps keep tape residue off if you are working in hot locations.
You do make a good point as to it depends on what the tape is actually on.
That's exactly the type of tape I'm talking about. I've used the white stuff in the studio in the way you described, and I use the black for other stuff. You can get it in all kinds of colors (same with gaff tape). I would usually have a roll of 1" hot pink tape to mark spots where people had to watch their step. You can get it in 1" and 2", if I remember correctly.
Here's a trick if you want to keep people from putting gaff tape on the actual cable: Clean the XLR cable with Armorall, and leave a little bit of the armorall on the cable. Not enough to make it messy, but enough that the cable looks great, and nothing sticks to it if you try to wrap tape around it. You can still tape it down to the ground when you need to, but the armorall helps keep tape residue off if you are working in hot locations.
You do make a good point as to it depends on what the tape is actually on.
Console (aka write-on) tape like that is certainly extremely handy. I use the 1" white to mark toe lines for on-camera talent (and for some stage events). As for longevity, I had a strip on my FOH console for about 4 months and removed it without anything left behind.
But, we're again way off track from the original post, and the lesson here is that connecting two XLR cables is perfectly normal (let's see how many get that pun), and a strip of gaff tape around the metal where the barrels connect will help keep it secure.
But, we're again way off track from the original post, and the lesson here is that connecting two XLR cables is perfectly normal (let's see how many get that pun), and a strip of gaff tape around the metal where the barrels connect will help keep it secure.
I chuckled. That was good.
Blade Borge
Well-known member
Thank you all for this lively discussion and an answer to my curiosity.
I would add that it is less of a problem with analog audio than with digital. I routinely connect 25', 50' and 100' analog mic cables up to 250 feet to my acoustic analyzer setup with no measurable degradation in signal quality from an instrumentation mic. Of course these are premium grade Canare cables with gold alloy connector contacts.
AES digital is a different matter. All cables and ideally the connectors too should be purpose made matched impedance 110 ohm digital cables. Mismatch of cable and connector impedance can cause return reflections down the cable that will limit your effective cable lengths. But digital line level from a mixer should be good to 300 feet with proper cables.
AES digital is a different matter. All cables and ideally the connectors too should be purpose made matched impedance 110 ohm digital cables. Mismatch of cable and connector impedance can cause return reflections down the cable that will limit your effective cable lengths. But digital line level from a mixer should be good to 300 feet with proper cables.
Richard Crowley
Veteran
REAL GENUINE gaffer's tape does not leave residue on XLR connectors (or anywhere else).
OTOH, cheap tape (duct/duck tape, and wannabe "gaffer" tape) DOES leave sticky residue.
OTOH, cheap tape (duct/duck tape, and wannabe "gaffer" tape) DOES leave sticky residue.