newb focus questions

NorBro said:
Multi-camera editing like the one in that link is much easier when someone is just sitting in a quiet room and talking to one camera.

Shooting live b-roll with various angles and close-ups, etc. of a performance could become a nightmare in post.

Soon enough robots will be filming and editing everything, but the tried-and-true application for myself has been to start recording on all cameras next to each other and clapping loud and clear several times for an obvious spike in the audio, and just letting them run.
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Well it works pretty seamlessly for me and if you are running DSLRs without external recorders you cannot let them run. I have done this running four or five DSLR's at once with operators restarting them every 20 minutes. I have never had to do more than a little massaging, sometimes none at all. The last one I did on my own with three locked off cameras over 40 feet away from me. Two were, yes, running into external recorders. One was running a Camranger with an iPad switching recording back on every 20 minutes two floors up. I was operating another camera. My point is that it was impossible to start them all at the same time next to each other. I had no issues whatsoever synching them all up in an FCPX multicam sequence using my reference audio from a Sound Devices 722.
 
Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. I did the shoot earlier, and it was a disaster.....

1. The location I was given for shooting was in the middle aisle in the second row close to the seats on the right. The middle aisle was off center from stage. I tried requesting to place the camera in a better spot, to get a clear centered composition, but the head person said no. So, the kids on far camera right are not very visible.


2. The stage was in front of a wall, outside that wall was a busy street with cars and sirens going off. No available audio to patch into...

3. I went handheld with the a73 and got lots of broll clips before it started. I started the camera as suggested here at the same time I started the a7s2 when the performance started. About 15 minutes later while walking around to get some key shots, the a73 overheated!!! Not the a7s2....I had to start it back up when it cooled, but obviously everything is now out of synch from that point forward.

4. I did a quick review of footage from the a7s2 and I have some guys head moving into the shot over and over again, along with his arm, and cell phone shooting video. This is from him sitting in front of the camera to the right. Not sure what to do....some of this was during of the out of synch moments...maybe I just find broll to cut away to.
 
Sounds about right...literally everything I warned about in this thread happened, haha.

Sorry to hear that though.

Filming life is difficult. If anything, this experience will make you much better at what you do. Every very good production person (or many) has made mistakes (some out of their control) in his or her career.

Very surprised about the a7III overheating though. I guess it's really hot where you are?
 
I was very surprised also. I was actually stunned, confused and it took me a moment to figure out what was going on. My first thought was the battery, though last I checked it was at 70%. It was only about 75 degrees out. I shot broll before the performance, so I’m guessing that along with the performance did it , though I had never heard of this before.. and the broll was lots of short clips.I had heard of the a7s2 doing that though I was under the impression the newer Sony’s did not do that. However, this is the most continuous footage I’ve ever shot with either camera.
 
The production misfortune stars aligned for you today...really crazy as there are YouTube tests showing the a7III recording for like 2-3 hours without overheating. I myself owned one for a few months and never even saw the symbol pop up.

You got very unlucky today...of course during an important job and not filming test shots.
 
kat.hayes said:
Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. I did the shoot earlier, and it was a disaster.....

1. The location I was given for shooting was in the middle aisle in the second row close to the seats on the right. The middle aisle was off center from stage. I tried requesting to place the camera in a better spot, to get a clear centered composition, but the head person said no. So, the kids on far camera right are not very visible.


2. The stage was in front of a wall, outside that wall was a busy street with cars and sirens going off. No available audio to patch into...

3. I went handheld with the a73 and got lots of broll clips before it started. I started the camera as suggested here at the same time I started the a7s2 when the performance started. About 15 minutes later while walking around to get some key shots, the a73 overheated!!! Not the a7s2....I had to start it back up when it cooled, but obviously everything is now out of synch from that point forward.

4. I did a quick review of footage from the a7s2 and I have some guys head moving into the shot over and over again, along with his arm, and cell phone shooting video. This is from him sitting in front of the camera to the right. Not sure what to do....some of this was during of the out of synch moments...maybe I just find broll to cut away to.
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Welcome to the world of live event shooting. I predict you will eventually and wisely decide to avoid it as much a possible in the future, I know I do. I wasn't kidding when I posted that IMHO, every force that organizes and puts on live events is directly at odds for any chance for effective video to easily and efficiently be shot of the event. It's almost like they have a check list:

1. Bad lighting - check
2. Bad sound - check
3. Terrible camera placement - check
4. Disorganized, little or no rehearsal - check
5. Last minute logistical changes that can mean huge hurdles for the video person/team and let's not tell them about the last minute logistical changes - check

I shot the FB Live Stream with a team at the NAACP Image Awards a few months ago. The red carpet wasn't happening until 5:00 PM and we arrived on set at 7:00 AM. Even with all of the discussions, tech rehearsals and planning, almost every contingency we had planned for didn't happen and a ton of impossible to have foreseen things did happen that were completely out of our control.
The wireless video transmitters that worked perfectly all day in testing and rehearsals malfunctioned the first time the TD cut to them during the live red carpet. Our talent showed up for rehearsal, then went to get into hair, makeup and wardrobe and didn't reurn until 90 minutes after we were told we would be going live and of course, nobody from the event told us. All of our power for the
rec carpet went out, all forty HMIs, our booth, camera, streaming uplink gear, all was dead less than 15 minutes before we went live. Just a bit stressful.

Mixing live events and video is always a recipe for disaster. Sorry you had a hard time but it's par for the course.
 
Kat, You've joined the club. It's too bad all the predictions came true. Now, take a knife and cut a notch in your camera. Keep cutting notches for every disaster. When there is no more camera left, you will be old and ready to retire.

Either now or sometime soon, you will look back at your notion of getting an artistic shot with some depth and have a chuckle.
 
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Sor I'm late to the party. Looking at the posts, I'd have said the same things. Virtually all of our business is events and entertainment and we work in theatre's, festivals, pubs, clubs, churches beaches - you name it! If it can go wrong it will. Over the years you develop a knack of spotting potential problems, and the biggest ones come from the organisers who can be great or incompetent. Camera positions in my world are expensive. If I want the best positions then the cost of blocking out not just my seat positions but those to the side or behind can get too expensive to lose. Site visits, though expensive, are vital for anything in certain buildings. Centre positions are vital, but often get hit on by the health and safety zealots who rarely understand it. Camera positions that look good empty suddenly have people in front on temporary seating who will stand up! I have two dedicated high tripods that can get the camera a foot above my six ft height. I've also got a small jib that can go higher and be locked off. I have six of rose Chinese go pro cameras and I put these all over the place, and they're invaluable for getting alternate shots for when your main cameras are all compromised a the same time. Unmanned cameras are always a gamble because they get knocked or eve deliberately interfered with . Batteries go flat. Lighting is always bad, and the sun is an enemy, when the perfect direction it was coming from changes! I follow one mantra my armed forces friend gave me years ago. The six P's. Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. As I've got more ancient, I'm much better at prediction. I now stand in the venue and look at the stage, then stand on the stage and look at the audience. Safe locations pop out. I hunt for nearby power. I look for safe places for the go pros where I have access for battery changing. I seek out the right people to talk to about cables and how to make them safe using their rules. Rubber angled channel, or taped down mats, or gaffer tape straight tone carpet. Or worst case, an out and out ban. Sockets providing power need agreement with the organiser, or the real boss. You ask the question. "Can I use this socket, it's crucial it doesn't get unplugged". You then stick a big label saying reserved for CYZ video use only by Fred smith. Then it gets left alone. Here in the uk be very scared about any event featuring kids. I'm DBS checked and carry the piece of paper (which holds no legal or special status, but pacifies the wary)in case I'm challenged, and I now have a section in my agreement that says that the organiser will check the status of any protected children or vulnerable young adults in the production to ensure the capturing of their image is allowed. Any requests for removal or obscuring faces afterwards will be charged for as a re-edit and if the product can not be used due to inclusion of a subject with courtbprotection, the full amount will still be payable. You can perhaps guess why this clause is now in! An invoice for four grand, with payment already made to the camera people suddenly unable to be used because one girl in row two, in virtually every shot has a court order for safety issues. They were going with a blobbed out face but the safety people advised that she was still identifiable, so they tried to scrap the video. In the end I got paid and we dumped the visuals totally, settling on an audio CD. I now always not only put this in the paperwork but make sure I ask the staff. A couple of times, they'll look at each other and say something like "oh, what do we do with Joanne?" Then they go into a huddle and have a panic. The producer hadn't been told, so asked somebody who didn't know and hearing nothing, assumed all was good, but this girl doesn't feature in the published list of names for the very same protection reasons, and nobody thought to tell the producer.

Live stuff can be exciting and who doing, but you MUST plan. I still don't get it right every time, something always trips me up, but I always have backups. If they will only pay for one camera, I have spare cameras that with digital media, cost me nothing to put out, so I do. If they say you can patch into the house audio, take a small zoom because their audio kit will be awful, or access to it will be refused by the operator because it's his, and nobody asked him. The wonderful lighting will be 30 year old stage lights that cannot be focused for safety reasons and are mixed colour temps. The sun streams in through a huge window making one side light and the other dark. Your carefully agreed and set up camera position is right behind a huge merchandising stand that arrives ten minutes before doors!

I've just seen a poster for an event I'm doing that has a different day on it to my paperwork. I cannot do the day the poster says. The organiser is coming back to me! Camera people booked. Hotels booked. I wonder who is right and so is wrong?
 
I wonder if you are putting yourself forward for a job you cannot do?

To cover a stage event I would do this..

1) boring camera at the back on a wide.

Usually a video camera..
Long roll times even across multiple cards.
Mains input.
Solid tripod with sandbags
Cable tidies to keep the public safe from your mains lead.
Batt on the camera to back up the mains supply.

2) two cameras with operators using zoom lenses one on the left and one on the right.

Id roll all the way through.

Ive personally synched the start with a stills camera flash with a magenta filter on it.

Sound should be taken from the desk into the XLR of the boring camera.
Both other cams should have shotguns
Consider an audio recorder and mic-ing the scene beyond what the local desk feeds you which may be trash.

Ideally have a soundie to mix your mics

Some soundies have the kit to crash in on other radio mics if they are in play on the talent.

Super pro you would have a director seeing all three cams and feeding the operators with direction through wireless headsets.


You cant go wrong adding a couple of gopros into the mix.
--

At minimum you want two ops and three cams IMO

(I could help you within a couple of hours of Bristol :) )
 
"I wonder if you are putting yourself forward for a job you cannot do?" Possibly, it seemed like a simple enough shoot that I felt comfortable enough doing. It was a one camera gig, honestly, they probably would be happy with pressing record at the beginning and stopping at the end. I brought the second cam for broll and cut-aways, though they were not even asking for that. Even if I was more experienced, what would you do if you showed up to a shoot like this and was given the camera location that I described, and the head person would not allow any changes?

What do you do in a situation like this when you warn your client about the issues, such as camera location, and make alternative suggestions, and you deliver your final video and you have the expected issues, such as people getting into the frame, and the poor composition that I described? Do you just deliver the final video? Do you make a point of reminding the client something like "...as you remember, I suggested that the camera location was not ideal and might result in some issues, and unfortunately you will see these issues in the video"

Somebody here should make an online course into all of the things that could go wrong and how to possibly address them, the things that do come with years of experience....I can see something like it on Lynda or another site.

FYI -- After some research, there is a setting on the A73 that will at least pop up with a warning before it shuts off, and it takes longer for it to shut off. I had no idea that this was an issue with this camera though...
 
I dont think warning clients works.. that to some extent why it is only worth taking jobs that are entirely within your grasp.

But on the other hand I lost a job recently due to over complexity in my quote.. I probably rocked up turned my EX1 set it to full auto 720p and gone to the pub for a couple of hours!

As for camera positioning, and people getting in front.. well thats a mix of three things.. charm kit and getting there on time.

For example Id be well capable of rigging my camera to basically anything up high and also tape rope chains or whatever can keep the crowd away and Ive got very tall sticks (and sanbags).. but charm is the number one.

Also your 'boring b' could be transmitting image to where you are sitting with the A cam so you can keep check on it.
 
You can warn all you want. It matters not. From a client perspective, they won't remember or won't care. Results are what matters. You're the expert. That's why they hired you. They have no clue and they don't want to have a clue. Just take care of it and make it look good.

Oh, they messed up your plans? They don't care. They didn't do what they said they would do. They don't care. You can't deliver the goods? Now they care.

That's why you walk away from certain jobs.
 
Would you walk away from the job if you show up to the shoot and are given the poor camera placement location?

Paul F said:
You can warn all you want. It matters not. From a client perspective, they won't remember or won't care. Results are what matters. You're the expert. That's why they hired you. They have no clue and they don't want to have a clue. Just take care of it and make it look good.

Oh, they messed up your plans? They don't care. They didn't do what they said they would do. They don't care. You can't deliver the goods? Now they care.

That's why you walk away from certain jobs.
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No. You need to present yourself as reliable and sticking with the terms of the deal. I'm not saying you did anything wrong. Over time, you can smell out jobs that you don't want to deal with. So after talking with a potential client and seeing what the job is and how they behave, you may decide this ones not for you and graciously decline the project.

It comes back to what Puredrifting has been saying. He tends to avoid live events altogether, with some exceptions. His business is such that he can afford to do it. You may not be in that situation. Maybe you need to take what comes to you. Well then, you take what comes to you and you deal with it as best you can. This was a good learning experience for you. If it went smooth, you would have learned nothing. Now you can take all that you learned to the next project; another notch in the camera.

I think the way you are interacting with us is excellent. You are asking the right questions and you are taking in advice in a very good manner. Here's hoping the next one goes better.
 
Paul F said:
You can warn all you want. It matters not. From a client perspective, they won't remember or won't care. Results are what matters. You're the expert. That's why they hired you. They have no clue and they don't want to have a clue. Just take care of it and make it look good.

Oh, they messed up your plans? They don't care. They didn't do what they said they would do. They don't care. You can't deliver the goods? Now they care.

That's why you walk away from certain jobs.
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Or do as paulears said in his post, you have certain stipulations in writing, up-front and signed to cover your @$$ and give you some sort of control, as well.

To reiterate what others have said, live events can be a nightmare. Since the early days of my career, I've been covering large, live events. Mostly professional sports. And I can't tell you how many times we've been in the middle of a network live shot on the field for NFL games and they start The National Anthem practice. Or being at the racetrack and doing a live shot right before the green flag and the shot gets pushed by a minute or two and the race starts right before they take the shot and it's impossible for the studio to hear the talent. We all have countless examples of "what can go wrong, will go wrong".
 
When I was in film school, even though I was taking narrative film classes, I had to take three semesters of live television production classes. I had to work in every role in live television production, from stage manager to LD to TD to Director to camera op. It was a nightmare and I hated it. After doing all of that for three semesters, I decided then and there I had zero interest in live television. The stress levels are off the charts and you only get one chance to make it perfect. I greatly admire people who can thrive in that environment, it's so incredibly difficult to do well. That was all at a pro level for broadcast. Take that down to the live event level that many of you are working in and you have all of that to deal with, plus dealing with non-pros exactly like Paul F wrote about. They won't cooperate, they have unrealistic expectations and never enough budget to do pay for the crew and resources to do a job properly as Morgan would request, yet they miraculously expect us to make it all work and make it all perfect even though they have completely littered the landscape with land mines that will destroy any chance of being able to do that. Enjoy people, I'd rather flip burgers than deal with all of that. Life's too short.
 
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Live television can be both fun and nerve-racking, but also very rewarding. I'll take live network TV over a wedding ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. And twice on Sunday's. But I guess it's just all in what you're used to and wired for. There are some events I'm much happier doing ENG for and other things I'm glad I'm live.

Some of it depends on your director and producer in the control room or truck. I've worked with some guys that have ice water in their veins and nothing rattles them. That make life easy. I've also been with the ones that are "screamers" and lose their sh!t at the blink of an eye and they make the situations 10x worse than they usually are.
 
Yep. If you freak as a director, you shouldn't be in the chair. Like this person. When he says "Somebody fix this" you know he should not be in the chair. The director gets the big bucks because s/he is supposed to be able to handle things like this. They happen, so you would expect that he would have been able to handle this with ease. If he gets rattled, everyone gets rattled and then the show looks bad. I've had behind the scenes was disasters several times, but we cover it and the audience either never knows or hardly notices it.

I was terrified my first time behind the camera for live TV. After a while, I was in the directors chair. I loved it. It's like anything. You need to develop some muscle memory on how to handle things and have in your head at all times what's next and a way to get out of it if it isn't ready or doesn't work. It's a blast.
 
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