FS7: New Sony PXW-FX9 with venice features and 6k full frame

[Gary T]

So this camera will finally replace F5 and F55? I think venice replaced F65? Or is F65 still for sale?

So this camera will finally replace F5 and F55? I think venice replaced F65? Or is F65 still for sale?

Sony doesn't appear to see the FX9 as a peer or replacement for the F5, F55 or F65. Those cameras are still for sell and are listed at the first link below under Sony's Digital Cinema Camera line.

At IBC Sony said they consider the FX9 to be a documentary camera and they list it under their handheld camcorder models at the second link below along with the FS7, FS5, and a dozen or so lower end models.

Of Sony doesn't get to decide how productions use their cameras but I think they've tried hard to make sure the FX9 doesn't compete with Venice.

https://pro.sony/ue_US/products/digital-cinema-cameras

https://pro.sony/ue_US/products/handheld-camcorders

 

[Donny 123]

I don't think it replaces either the F5 or F55, as it doesn't record any high bitrate codecs, or raw.

I think it will do really well in the FS7's space. And the dual ISO and built-in timecode will make it very appealing for doco and actuality work. But it exists for a different part of the market than the PMW cameras.

Yes its an interesting line up now.. but surely now the f5 has to be on the way out..I got mine before the fs7 came out and still the f5 was the superior camera..but now I will most likely be buying the fx9 and selling or I hope trade in the f5.. . but for the higher end drama /raw shoots the f55 is still a very good choice..but the f5.. Im sure that will be phased out now.. the fx9 has a lot better features than the f5.. I think there will be many f5 owners like me that have been waiting for a camera other than the fs7 ,to be worth buying a new camera ..

 

[Newsguy]

If you don’t need raw, the FX9 is also a better option than the 55 as well. There are small gotchas with the 55 that I can’t stand, like no physical audio pots. The 55 still shoots higher bitrates, but the 6K downsample should be a crystal 4K image on the 9.

 

[Donny 123]

If you don’t need raw, the FX9 is also a better option than the 55 as well. There are small gotchas with the 55 that I can’t stand, like no physical audio pots. The 55 still shoots higher bitrates, but the 6K downsample should be a crystal 4K image on the 9.

Yes true.. there might be people who really need the global shutter.. but yes agreed ..if you don't need RAW the Fx9 has better features .. well except that long loupe EVF thing they have kept !.. mid range 15-25$K camera market seems to be disappearing .. the prices now are just so low for what you get..

 

[Grug]

Yes its an interesting line up now.. but surely now the f5 has to be on the way out..I got mine before the fs7 came out and still the f5 was the superior camera..but now I will most likely be buying the fx9 and selling or I hope trade in the f5.. . but for the higher end drama /raw shoots the f55 is still a very good choice..but the f5.. Im sure that will be phased out now.. the fx9 has a lot better features than the f5.. I think there will be many f5 owners like me that have been waiting for a camera other than the fs7 ,to be worth buying a new camera ..

There are a LOT of F5s out there smashing out TV shows every day. TV shows that are almost all broadcast in HD, and won't be jumping to 4k anytime soon (but will be able to just fine with those same F5s when the day comes).

Those cameras will be used for many years to come, and Sony will keep making/supporting them to keep the companies with large fleets of them running.

I can see a lot of owner/ops getting the FX9, and I can see a lot of TV operations that are on the precipice of moving to S35/larger sensor cameras (from 2/3" fleets) getting the FX9.

But I really don't think the F5 or F55 will be going anywhere anytime soon.

The FX9 obviously makes a terrific image, and recorded externally to Prores in 4k 4:2:2 (the only sample footage I've got my hands on to date), it's definitely superior to the F5. But how well will the 300Mbps internal codec, compare to the 480Mbps in the F5? That we'll have to wait and see. It's not a forgone conclusion by any means, because bitrates matter (and for a lot of people, proper EVFs do too).

 

[Donny 123]

There are a LOT of F5s out there smashing out TV shows every day. TV shows that are almost all broadcast in HD, and won't be jumping to 4k anytime soon (but will be able to just fine with those same F5s when the day comes).

Those cameras will be used for many years to come, and Sony will keep making/supporting them to keep the companies with large fleets of them running.

I can see a lot of owner/ops getting the FX9, and I can see a lot of TV operations that are on the precipice of moving to S35/larger sensor cameras (from 2/3" fleets) getting the FX9.

But I really don't think the F5 or F55 will be going anywhere anytime soon.

The FX9 obviously makes a terrific image, and recorded externally to Prores in 4k 4:2:2 (the only sample footage I've got my hands on to date), it's definitely superior to the F5. But how well will the 300Mbps internal codec, compare to the 480Mbps in the F5? That we'll have to wait and see. It's not a forgone conclusion by any means, because bitrates matter (and for a lot of people, proper EVFs do too).

Sure Im very happy with my f5 .. and its made me a good wedge for sure..I use it for broadcast all the time.. and a lot of 4K (the hack did save me there).. but far more productions in that market are fs7 now.. of the whole line up the f5 seems to be falling between chairs now.. fs7 2 and the fx9.. really the f5 is the one to go.. I cant see many new buyers now.. great camera for sure..had mine for 6 years.. but a new buyer would have to go for the fs72 or the fx9 ..that are way cheaper too.. higher end /raw users .. sure f55.. but the f5 market is already 99% fs7.. and now the fx9 coming in at under $10,000 .. really who will be buying the f5.. sure Sony will support for a number of years.. but the end is near for sure..

 

[JPNola]

In terms of evolution from the Fs7, there is so much with the Fx9 that Sony got right, so much that Sony added, and so much that Sony addressed that was less than right on the Fs7. The strap on the hand grip. The buttons that allow you to control the headphone volume without having to go into the menu. Manually activated ND wheel replaced with motorized ND wheel. The higher resolution LCD and the better focus-zoom that results. The ability to have a LUT applied in the VF when in S&Q mode. WIFI image transmission that allows your Producer to see the image on their smartphone or tablet. Auto-focus. They made the "status" button bigger and easier for my Sound guys to find. Physical pots for audio channels 3 & 4. The REC button now lights up to indicate you are rolling. The "thumbnail" button is now larger, of a different shape, and more distinguishable from the buttons such as "slot select". They got rid of the "full auto" button that caused so many operators a problem. You can now record proxy files onto the SD card. The dial / button combo for accessing the menu has been replaced with a five-button system that makes for easier menu navigation. No more having to dial up and down through the menu. They redesigned the headphone jack so that the headphone connection is better protected. All that plus full frame, true 4K, dual ISO, and Venetian-like color science and it is only a measly $2000 more than the Fs7M2? Get outta here!

 

[J.Brown]

At almost twice the cost not to be forgotten.

 

[JPNola]

At almost twice the cost not to be forgotten.

Was that in reply to my post?

What is almost twice the cost of what? Fx9 nearly twice the price of the Fs7M1 at it's launch? 32% more, if my math is correct. If that prices out the skinny-jean hipster upstarts, I'm okay with that. Within a couple years of it's launch it seemed everyone and their brother had an Fs7. When I started in this business you could count on one hand the number of people in my entire state who owned a professional video camera. All the professional video work went to a very small number of individuals.

 

[Donny 123]

Was that in reply to my post?

What is almost twice the cost of what? Fx9 nearly twice the price of the Fs7M1 at it's launch? 32% more, if my math is correct. If that prices out the skinny-jean hipster upstarts, I'm okay with that. Within a couple years of it's launch it seemed everyone and their brother had an Fs7. When I started in this business you could count on one hand the number of people in my entire state who owned a professional video camera. All the professional video work went to a very small number of individuals.

I think it was in reply to my post ..

 

[J.Brown]

I paid half the price (+$300) for my new FS7 in 2014 compared to a new FX9 today so to me this looks like twice the price yes.
Even cvp.com has the FS7 priced at £5,448.33 today and the FX9 at £10.000 so this also looks like about twice the price.

So one can't compare the FS7 to the FX9 as they are in so totally different price segments. Sure the FX9 is better on almost everything and it should as it's twice the price.

 

[SJX]

Sony doesn't appear to see the FX9 as a peer or replacement for the F5, F55 or F65. Those cameras are still for sell and are listed at the first link below under Sony's Digital Cinema Camera line.

At IBC Sony said they consider the FX9 to be a documentary camera and they list it under their handheld camcorder models at the second link below along with the FS7, FS5, and a dozen or so lower end models.

Of Sony doesn't get to decide how productions use their cameras but I think they've tried hard to make sure the FX9 doesn't compete with Venice.

https://pro.sony/ue_US/products/digital-cinema-cameras

https://pro.sony/ue_US/products/handheld-camcorders

Confusing. I thought venice was F65 replacement. What can't venice do better than F65? Image looks much better, is FF and I think is better in every way than F65. Or?

 

[Donny 123]

Confusing. I thought venice was F65 replacement. What can't venice do better than F65? Image looks much better, is FF and I think is better in every way than F65. Or?

It blatantly is.. just Sony in their weird way say it's not.. but of course it is.. same as the f5 could never record 4K internally ..which was out right 100% denied many times by Sony.. must be some cultural thing I guess... in the west whats called a lie is some sort of face saver in Japan I guess..

 

[SJX]

Can F65 do more frame rates or higher? Maybe better RAW? Or better bit rates? Or maybe because F65 global shutter like film? Is sensor in venice also emulating 444 like F65? I know F65 is no real 444 like F35. But sensor tries. Maybe one of these is why sony says F65 is superior?

 

[J.Brown]

It's difficult to guess what Sony wants with all their cine cameras. My take is that Venice should replace both F65 and F55 as it looks to be a much smarter camera. But I'm not Sony.

 

[Donny 123]

Can F65 do more frame rates or higher? Maybe better RAW? Or better bit rates? Or maybe because F65 global shutter like film? Is sensor in venice also emulating 444 like F65? I know F65 is no real 444 like F35. But sensor tries. Maybe one of these is why sony says F65 is superior?

I dont think Sony have said f65 is superior to Venice .. just that Venice isn't replacing it.. which of course it is.. f65 is very old camera and was never popular.its not global shutter but a mechanical one .. bigger sensor than the f55 but not the Venice .. who knows why Sony seem to have a problem just telling the truth.. have a long history of BS.. decent camera,s though so who cares I guess... good engineers idiot management ..

 

[Donny 123]

It's difficult to guess what Sony wants with all their cine cameras. My take is that Venice should replace both F65 and F55 as it looks to be a much smarter camera. But I'm not Sony.

Venice is the flag ship.. its designed for a camera crew.. the main LCD is on the AC side.. originally it had no custom mode.. or 2K..the f55 can still be used as a one person camera crew..you can shoot a doc easily on the f55.. the Venice is not a run and gun camera..

 

[SJX]

I dont think Sony have said f65 is superior to Venice .. just that Venice isn't replacing it.. which of course it is.. f65 is very old camera and was never popular.its not global shutter but a mechanical one .. bigger sensor than the f55 but not the Venice .. who knows why Sony seem to have a problem just telling the truth.. have a long history of BS.. decent camera,s though so who cares I guess... good engineers idiot management ..

Yes this is what I meant by global shutter like film. The mechanical shutter. Venice doesn't have that right? Also venice is just straight cmos sensor? F65 has the rgb thing going. There maybe a reason for why sony think venice doesn't replace it. Maybe because F65 still can do something venice can't? Just because F65 is old doesn't mean it must be worse. F35 is older and makes better image than F65, F55 etc. Has better skins etc too. Old doesn't mean worse.

 

[Donny 123]

f65 is CMOS sensor.. you are thinking of the f35.. mechanical shutter is not global.. the Venice is patiently a better camera .. and well TBH in this day and age yes new camers, are pretty much always better.. its obviously the new flag ship camera .. ie not the f65.. and there fore its replacement .. its sort of nuts to think otherwise ?.. why Sony dont say so is down to some cultural reasons.. fine.. but it is a replacement .. I really doubt the f65 is being made anymore but I guess they want to sell what they have ..it will be supported for a good few years Im sure.. in parts and service..

 

[SJX]

f65 is CMOS sensor.. you are thinking of the f35.. mechanical shutter is not global.. the Venice is patiently a better camera .. and well TBH in this day and age yes new camers, are pretty much always better.. its obviously the new flag ship camera .. ie not the f65.. and there fore its replacement .. its sort of nuts to think otherwise ?.. why Sony dont say so is down to some cultural reasons.. fine.. but it is a replacement .. I really doubt the f65 is being made anymore but I guess they want to sell what they have ..it will be supported for a good few years Im sure.. in parts and service..

I have a F35. See my Avatar. I know the difference. I know F65 is cmos. But is not just any cmos. Sensor is not straight. It's turned 45 degree to try to emulate what F35 sensor does with rgb. I think venice is just a straight cmos like any other camera? I know mechanical shutter is not same as global. But maybe this makes sony sees F65 as more high end? Because it has film shutter? Don't know. Just trying to speculate why venice is not replacement in sony's eyes. Is venice even global shutter? Don't remember now.

.. and well TBH in this day and age yes new camers, are pretty much always better..

except not always. Alexa is old and is still the prefered. Sensor now is what more than 10 years old? F35 also makes nicer images than any sony. Maybe only venice compare. Never seen a venice movie yet. Not talking resolution and paper written specs. Only image. New now is not always better.