New Sony HDV Cam

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Re: New Sony HDV Cam

Let me ask a newbie question, since I haven't been following HD at all. Isn't HD output closer to 35mm (color saturation, DOF, etc.) than SD? And wouldn't HD downconverted to SD retain some of those qualities that many of us "filmmakers" pine for - 24p or not?
 
Re: New Sony HDV Cam

HD is all about resolution. There will be no DOF difference between a 1/3" HDV camera and a 1/3" DV camera, assuming they have identical focal length lenses, and apparently the new Sony has a 32.5-400mm equivalent, whereas the DVX is 32.5-325mm, so DOF will be basically identical between them.

As for latitude, the HDV may actually suffer a bit, since it has almost 3x as many pixels crammed onto its CCD, so each pixel is very tiny and therefore can't gather as much light for as long as a larger pixel could.

As for saturation, that remains to be seen.

But as for resolution, that's a no-brainer: the HDV should trounce the DVX in that category, as that's its main reason for existing.
 
Re: New Sony HDV Cam

Thanks Barry,
The reason that I asked was that I followed one of the links above and ended up at the Lumier HD website, where I was able to download an HD 720P Transport Stream clip (BIG) and the VLC viewer to watch it with. I was blown out of my chair. So now I'm suddenly interested in HD. ;D

http://lumierehd.com/whatishdv.php#3
 
Re: New Sony HDV Cam

Yeah, and that clip was shot with the JVC, which will arguably turn out to be the worst of the HDV cameras... In the right hands it can produce great results, but still it has poor latitude and color response.  With 3-CCD cams on the horizon, they can only go up from here... I find HDV fascinating and want to see a camera that fully explores the capabilities. I'd be very interested in the Sony if they'd done it right, or in the new Sony Pro camera (assuming there is one), but I may just wait for the JVC shoulder-mount 2/3" cam...
 
Re: New Sony HDV Cam

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=nws;num=1094538727;start=30#35 date=09/07/04 at 19:17:07]Thing is, the only people clamoring for HD are the manufacturers.  The average consumer really doesn't seem to give a hoot.  Neither does the continent of Europe.[/quote]

Isn't it cool the way consumers invariably confound the pinheads who try to remold society based on what they think consumers *should* want?
 
Re: New Sony HDV Cam

believe me, when you show Joe Bloggs some HD splased ascross your living room from a HD DLP projector (with cinema sounds) they WILL want it.

I just found out a few days ago that Digital HD was being broadcast in the UK and Europe in the form of Euro1080 (being that it transmits 1080i content) and there are people watching it (OK a small number) but still HD is comming, its down to the manufacters, if they make it accesible then people will by it.

Since manufactuers have been making Widescreen (and Flat) CRT tv people have been buying them, and now widescreen TV's are common.

With the given specs, its not unreasonable to say that a 35mm film out aint gonna look to bad huh?
 
Re: New Sony HDV Cam

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=nws;num=1094538727;start=30#44 date=09/08/04 at 00:16:26]

Isn't it cool the way consumers invariably confound the pinheads who try to remold society based on what they think consumers *should* want?
[/quote]
Exactly! "superior technology" products fall by the wayside all the time. Consumers buy something based on *convenience*, not technology.

Why did cassettes become so popular? Because you could take 'em in the car, and they didn't scratch.

Why did CD's become so popular? Superior sound? No, it's because you could skip tracks from one to the next, something you couldn't do with cassettes. Quality was a bonus.

Why did DVD's become so popular? Because they don't need to be rewound, and they don't break or come out of their shells like VHS's do. And they're small. Quality was just a bonus. Why didn't laserdisc catch on? Because you had to turn 'em over in the middle of the movie, and they were huge.

Why did home DBS satellite dishes become so popular? Because they have that nifty programming guide. Also people hate their cable companies. They advertised it based on picture quality, but 6mbps mpeg-2 with ghosting, artifacting, dropouts during storms, etc... can't say that picture quality was the deciding factor there!

So, what does HDTV offer that brings new convenience to the user?

Er, it has better picture quality... but so what? Where's the convenience?

That's why I wonder whether it'll be a widely-adopted tech. Right now it seems like it's hard to buy a TV set that isn't HD-ready, but I still wonder how many customers would pay even $200 more to get an HD-compatible version of a set (i.e., you can get this set for $1100, or you can get the EXACT SAME set that can display HD signals for just $200 more... how many would buy the more expensive set? I think it'd be interesting to do a poll of actual on-the-floor customers to find out.)
 
Re: New Sony HDV Cam

When I get my Sony HDV Cam, I'm going to keep it on a special shelf...right next to my Betamax recorder, my Memory Stick reader, my MicoMV camcorder, my MiniDisk player, and my Hi8 camcorder.

My question is this: do you think this camera will also support ATRAC3? And will it have an iLink port...or just a firewire port?
 
Re: New Sony HDV Cam

Hey, don't forget DCC or... what was that other digital cassette format, I forget, but there were two digital cassette tape formats...
 
Re: New Sony HDV Cam

I was trying to find others online, but much to my surprise, no one has built an online graveyard dedicated to sony's propriatary formats.
 
Re: New Sony HDV Cam

Is it true the Sony Cam has native 960x1080i chips? Doesn't that require an extraplolation to get to 1440 by 1080 (and then again to get 16x9)

I just knew Sony would find a way to ruin the quality somehow.
 
Re: New Sony HDV Cam

As I actually re-read it ::) *L* I see the chips are "rectangular" with 16:9 (wider than tall) pixels laid out in a 960x1080 grid. Does this still require an extraplation?

They did disable the sound, but I think I'm still a gettin' one. One beachtek and some post pro tools and voila.

You don't need 24p to get a great picture. I don't think you lose much with de-interlacing in post.

But forget the 18 bucks for the tape sony *L*. I'm sure 4 dollar tapes work just swell.
 
Re: New Sony HDV Cam

[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=nws;num=1094538727;start=45#48 date=09/08/04 at 09:57:37]When I get my Sony HDV Cam, I'm going to keep it on a special shelf...right next to my Betamax recorder, my Memory Stick reader, my MicoMV camcorder, my MiniDisk player, and my Hi8 camcorder.

My question is this: do you think this camera will also support ATRAC3?  And will it have an iLink port...or just a firewire port?[/quote]


oooh! (thats gotta hurt)
Guys lets remember DONT judge a Camera by its Press release,
lets wait for some actual field tests!
;D
 
Re: New Sony HDV Cam

[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=nws;num=1094538727;start=45#48 date=09/08/04 at 09:57:37]When I get my Sony HDV Cam, I'm going to keep it on a special shelf...right next to my Betamax recorder, my Memory Stick reader, my MicoMV camcorder, my MiniDisk player, and my Hi8 camcorder.

My question is this: do you think this camera will also support ATRAC3?  And will it have an iLink port...or just a firewire port?[/quote]

You have a really good eye for buying new technology, Barnes... ;D
 
Re: New Sony HDV Cam

[quote author=Michael Struthers link=board=nws;num=1094538727;start=45#54 date=09/08/04 at 14:47:33]
They did disable the sound, but I think I'm still a gettin' one. One beachtek and some post pro tools and voila.

You don't need 24p to get a great picture. I don't think you lose much with de-interlacing in post.[/quote]

Removing that hideous Sony[sup]TM[/sup]-brand audio hiss in post is a real pain in the vrump. Trust me, I had to de-hiss a 90-minute DV feature that was shot on both the TRV900 AND the XL1S, and used sound from both cameras. It's not worth the time or the quality loss (even the best noise reduction algorithms will leave you with a tinge of that underwater garble.)

The 50% loss in resolution by deinterlacing may be acceptable to some, but I'm a real anal bastard, and I hate the stairstepping caused by such nonsense. The 24p aspect isn't really for quality, it's for feel. A 24p frame won't give you any more resolution than a 30p frame, but 24p motion video has the feel of film, and that's really all that matters.
 
Re: New Sony HDV Cam

What can we expect of the pro version based on the specs of the VX2100 and the PD170? In terms of price and features?

Also, does the PD170 have the Sony-hiss? Will the pro version of this camera have the hiss?

When do you think we might see the pro version?

(I was all set and ready to buy a DVX and now this!)
 
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