NEW: Sony HandyCam NXCAM with E-Mount
- Thread starter vagarob
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Danielvilliers
Veteran
You never know, they could rationalise the sensor and benefit from economies of scale. They could just limit the features, like 8 or maximum 10 bit but only 4.2.2 with only hdmi output. No s-log, build quality and no evf as already seen. What is coming out of this announcement is that Sony is really serious about it s35 line up. The $ 15 000 f3 is very well positioned (upper level) to be just in between the future Epic and Af-100, and the this one between a potential scarlet and again AF-100 but lower level. As time goes the f3 is shaping more and more as a true (not direct) competitor to the red. The Redone mx is now $ 25 000 and working Epic would be more like $ 35000 - $ 40000 and the f3 pricing will be quite competitive. The alexa will have a lot to worry, because an s-log 4.4.4 sony f3 at $ 20 000 will be a hard competitor at less than one third the price. Sony latest 16 mega pixel sensor in the pentax k5/ nikon d7000 have remarkable low light iso and more so dynamic range (about 14 stop) If this type of tech is implemented in a 4k chip about the same size than the above dslr still sensor, then god knows the quality it would achieve.
This nxcam, seems to sony product for the indies. The form factor is already a clue. Very bare bone system, very modular than can be customised at will. This crowd with the advent of the dslr have already a lot of accessories from rails system, external microphone etc... So give them a bare box with some good quality image, because in the end they are prepared to make a lot of compromise (fuctinonality or form factor) just for the look (image I mean).
TheReverend
Well-known member
S35 is the new standard? Sony announces some cameras and that is now the standard? That seems a bit presumptuous. I doubt Canon will come out with an S35 size sensor. And Panny has fought the 1/3" vs 1/2" battle before. I wager strongly that Panasonic will stay with the 4/3s standard. Too many benefits for them in it!
They already have. It's called the 7D or ASP-C. 22.2 x 14.8
Close enough.
Sensors around this size will be the new standard, like it or not. It's not going to be 4/3" or the FF of the 5D MII that's for sure. This isn't just about Sony or Canon. It's about having a standard that close enough to something like 3 perf 35mm that everything from PL mount motion picture lenses to still photo can be used without screwing around too much with multiplying their focal lengths.
It's the happy medium.
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Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
If someone came out with a camera with a S-35 camera that shot Log-C at a price lower than RED I would personally not miss RAW.
cinema 35mm would be the standard.
i think its a fair game between 4/3 and aps-c with aps-c having advantage on the wide end
truth be told, sensor size whouldnt be the point of comparison anymore. DOF wise, the difference is less than half a stop.
Here's more info on the camera.
It says the S35 sensor is not the same as the F3s, that it records AVCHD 24bit, it will have 10-bit (!!!) 4:2:2 uncompressed output, it will have a PL lens mount adapter and is priced around 6,000 Euros - about $8,000 US.
http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/public/news_script.php?story=83
I wonder if the lens is included. It that the same lens from the VG-10?
Edit - Now I'm hearing more like $7,000. But who really knows.
It says the S35 sensor is not the same as the F3s, that it records AVCHD 24bit, it will have 10-bit (!!!) 4:2:2 uncompressed output, it will have a PL lens mount adapter and is priced around 6,000 Euros - about $8,000 US.
http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/public/news_script.php?story=83
I wonder if the lens is included. It that the same lens from the VG-10?
Edit - Now I'm hearing more like $7,000. But who really knows.
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carlweston
Active member
Danielvilliers
Veteran
I hope that if they use one of there slr sensor they use the one in the pentax k-5 or nikon d7000. These have very good low light and exceptional dynamic range (14 stop). The best would be the sony f3 type of lower, bigger photosite sensor.
Steve Castle
Well-known member
While there is little information provided on either sensor, if its a S35 sensor its more likely related to the F3 then a dSLR. A S35 format has little to no relevance to still photography, and its very unlikely that Sony will be making two completly bespoke CMOS s35 sensors. From a fabrication standpoint there should be no significant difference in cost between an F3 sensor and this NXCAM (since its likely an Exmor of identical size). The real cost is in development and testing. It seems to me that Sony is going to use this lower-end camera to meet economies-of-scale for their $16k F3. There is clearly going to be some degree of specification differences between the F3 sensor and this NXCAM, and Sony having a lot of vertical sensor infrastructure in-house allows them to have a lot more flexibility with the variations they can introduce between sensors, however the logical move for Sony would be to share as much of the underlying technology and design between their S35 sensors as they can.
Based on some of the roadmap presentation Sony have been giving recently, they also seem to be intending on introducing a S35 4k CMOS camera as well; possibly with a global-shutter:
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/video/related-recently_added/video-cinealta_hdworld2010_4k_roadmap/
What this camera impresses upon me is that Sony seems to have a unified development plan for their S35 CMOS cameras. And it doesn't seem to be a reactionary product roll-out of one camera here, and another there, to fight emerging competition. It looks to be that their videocentric CMOS development is running parallel to dSLR CMOS development rather then being branched off of it. In many ways their approach is more like Red's then Panasonic's (based on what Panasonic has so far shown). Except unlike Red, which is trying to move up the value chain, Sony seems to be releasing 'affordable' S35 cameras at the lower end of the market first.
Danielvilliers
Veteran
Thats the dream...please come true.
There is one company that had everything to do such a camera years ago and completely dominate this segment. If they had looked at the wider market and not only the zealots on there forum, they would have seen that there was a huge market clamoring for a 2k, super 35 and high dynamic range with reasonable frame rate and low light capabilities. But these were not worth their brand and where not man enough. They had all the tech as they had produced 4k s35 camera. 2k, only one quarter of the bandwidth in raw compared to 4k, same size chip, bigger photosite for low light. In fact they would have tens of thousand of zealots, singing there praise, starting from me...
Perhaps I will have to praise sony or panasonic...
Danielvilliers
Veteran
I think for marketing purpose they will always try to say that it is not the same sensor to differentiate product at different price point. They will easily sell much more than the f3 and get economies of scale, just need to to add or remove some functionality like 4.4.4 hd-sdi to differentiate them. Depending on this model price and the F3, we could also see another model in between. Just have a line of product with certain set of features at different price point to cater for certain needs and eventual competitor. Those who have been clamoring for a af-200 with 10 bit hdsdi, will see it sooner than latter now.
Danielvilliers
Veteran
A rumored uk 6000 pound camera is not going to translate into a $ 10 000 camera. You should compare the msrp to the Af-100 price in the uk. It could be just $ 1000 to $ 2000 price difference in the states.
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
O.K. here it goes - straight from the horses mouth - aka the Sony Press Event here in Munich today.
They called it the "35mm World" Strategy and Products
EXMOR CMOS Super35-Sensor, exactly the same as the F3 they said.
Modular Design - modules are coming.
E-mount
AVCHD Full HD 24, 25, 30 and maybe 50 fps in 1080p.
Price here in Germany 6000 €
They also showed the new SR memory cards (1 TB!) and a SR card recorder for the F3
the SRW-9000PL Camcorder and of course the F3.
Good news: The F3 will have RGB 444 Output (coming April 1011).
The demo clips of the F3 they showed (recorded on hdcam-sr) where nothing but breathtaking.
Frank
They called it the "35mm World" Strategy and Products
EXMOR CMOS Super35-Sensor, exactly the same as the F3 they said.
Modular Design - modules are coming.
E-mount
AVCHD Full HD 24, 25, 30 and maybe 50 fps in 1080p.
Price here in Germany 6000 €
They also showed the new SR memory cards (1 TB!) and a SR card recorder for the F3
the SRW-9000PL Camcorder and of course the F3.
Good news: The F3 will have RGB 444 Output (coming April 1011).
The demo clips of the F3 they showed (recorded on hdcam-sr) where nothing but breathtaking.
Frank
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thekreative
Veteran
Thanks Frank........it seems it might steal some thunder from Panasonic.