FS7: New Sony F7 XDCAM 4K Super 35mm Camcorder

Can LUTs be baked into the image on broadcast 422 MPEG-2 at 50mpbs? That probably the only time I would bake in a look is for quick turnaround footage for lower end jobs - reality, events, corporate, etc...

I know you can bake in the LUTs on the higher end X-AVC codecs, but I would only use LUTs for monitoring only on higher end codecs.
 
LUTs are of course only available in CineEI mode. But I dont imagine that there is any relationship to codec. So burning a lut into your mpeg2 footage should work

Ned
 
Erik Wittbusch said:
FCPX is sadly not the appropriate tool, as the LUT functionality is
still in an early stage. You can just apply LUTs from apple, which can't
be adjusted properly.

It's much, much better in Resolve.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I'll give Resolve a try. Hopefully it'll let me do a clean roundtrip from FCPX.


starcentral said:
Hey Steve, I invested in Neat Video because I too found the same thing with certain shots. If you use slog3 and rate the camera lower by a stop or two it helps. NR is suppose to be coming back to the CineEI mode in F5/55 this December so hopefully it makes it over to the F7 as well...
Click to expand...

This is too bad. I was expecting this camera to be better in lowlight but I guess you can't have everything.
 
Camera is excellent in low light. SLog3 is just inherently noisier owing to that shadows lift we've discussed. The LUT helps take care of the noise floor. And SLog2 will follow in early 2015.

Dennis-- I am pretty certain I've installed the most recent F55 pack in Film Convert and I only see SLog2. I'll ping the Film Convert people again. Does SLog3 show up for you?

Ned
 
Hi,

only finding F55 SLog2 in filmconvert...

But you can still use the Sony SLog3 LUT and use filmconvert
without choosing a camera profile. Works flawless!
 
Hi Ned, I don't have access to my system right now to check but guess maybe I'm imagining it existed. (been playing with too many LUT / film vendors lately)

As mentioned by Erik, you can just add any slog3 lut to bring it to rec709 then add standard film convert top.

Sounds like a really good cam so far despite a few minor set backs. Can't beat that darn price period.
 
Okay, so I did a roundtrip from FCPX to Resolve 11 and dropped an SLOG3 Gamma to SLOG2 709 LUT and it worked GREAT!!!! This is definitely more robust than doing it in FCPX. The chroma noise I saw before is pretty much gone. Thanks for the help guys.
 
I will still call my dealer and tell him the Speedbooster "bug". :angry:

We already know, that this time, Sony really had a hard schedule to be the
first with a camera in this class, but as my camera is already coming monday
and I don't like to be non-paid beta Tester with my clients, this has to be
solved quickly.

When I was at the FS7 demo 2 weeks ago, we tested the camera with a
MarkII Smart Adapter from Metabones + Canon 50/1,4 and Canon 24-105/4L.
Both worked, but iris adjustment was a mess and I didn't see the focus distance
in the display of the FS7 as I do currently with my FS100 and all Metabones/Canon
options.

All of us should tell our dealers/Sony to solve the problems quickly!

1) histogram/waveform disappears
2) Canon lenses don't work as they do with other Sony cameras
 
Am I the only guy on this board who's concerned about the lack of user controls of LUt's in CINE EI?

I'm generally just a hired DP and not doing my own Post, moreover I work for a lot of people who want a nice baked-in take home image, or at least like RED, an easy to use LUT that's right there for them and represents the DP's intent.

Between the limited color balance options and the noise in SLog3 it looks like the 709 typeA Alexa-ish look that I was hoping to be able to provide will be cramped by limitations on noise (at 200 ISO) and color.

A typical color issue for me would be an interview I shot yesterday with a bright window in the shot . Perfect for SLog3 but I wanted that window to go a little Blue-ish and thus I warmed up the key light & Shot with a Kelvin around 4000 . it looked great . That's easy in normal gammas, but in CINE EI I it seems I would need to carry a range of fractional CTB camera filters. Similarly if I wanted it a little warm I'd need CTO filters. What happens if you're under fluorescents or even if your Kino or even HMI bulbs are a little aged and off a touch. Do I also need to carry Magenta & Green lens filters? Don't have this problem with a RED - don't know about Alexa but i don't think so.

Does anyone understand why SONY has locked the LUT's or even SLog3 itself in CINE EI? Maybe there's a good technical reason , but I wonder if its just their assumption that we all want to shoot like film . Originally SLog was similarly locked in the F3 but then they simply made it a picture profile and gave us all the freedom we wanted. Why not with SLog3?

Anyone else want to pressure Sony for this?

Lenny
 
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The reason for locking WB in CineEI mode is because when recording RAW you would need a different debayer algorithm for every conceivable white balance setting.

With RED it's meta data but with Sony baked in.

So Sony would need two CineEI modes I guess, RAW and non-RAW.
 
Lenilenapi said:
Does anyone understand why SONY has locked the LUT's or even SLog3 itself in CINE EI?
Click to expand...

It hasn't. I am shooting Custom mode with Slog3 gamma, matrix off, and NR at low or medium. Looks great and grades nearly exactly as Slog3 shot in CineEl. I say nearly because I am not quite sure what gamut it is using, but to my non-colorist-but-still-good eyes, the grades and latitude available were identical. You also get the advantage of ISO control and manual Wb in this mode, and of course in cam NR which helps a lot and preserves detail.

I have tried and tried to tell the difference, and just couldn't. I used FilmConvert F55 Slog 2/sgamut and also did it manually. Looks great. Very low noise even at low light (60 watts total in one room) at ISO 6400. I'm sure I am missing something not shooting in CineEl but for my clients and purposes not a soul would notice.

Ideally: I'd love to shoot CineEl Slog3 with in cam NR as an option, and I would also like the MLUT options fixed in firmware so I can actually apply it just to the VF without having to turn it on for internal recording/SDI1 as well. That's just a bug I am sure will be fixed soon. In the meantime I just expose using the waveform, which is tricky as you are not just keeping highlights below 100.
 
Thanks for that info , but then I'm still a bit confused.

Pardon my stupidity on this but I haven't had the camera in hand yet nor am I used to an F5/55. Perhaps I haven't read thoroughly, but the only explanations I've seen, seem to point to CINE EI as the only way to use SLog3 as well as VF LUT's and to do a balked in LUT with 709(800%) or 709 type A. Is it possible to do all that stuff outside elf CINE EI?

Lenny
 
Highly speculative since I don't actually own a FS7 but know how it is for the F5/F55. Someone with FS7 can verify this but:

Custom mode gives you manual access to turn on or off NR, Matrix, detail settings, WB, etc.. but no LUT capability. (No LUTs in this mode are stupid if you ask me, I don't care what the reasons are.)

CineEI mode gives you LUT capabilitiy and everything else (matrix, details, etc..) is FORCED off, including NR. In addition to this (still needs to be verified) a few users haved reported that if you turn on a LUT it gets baked in to the footage when in theory there should be a way to only use it on VF and not mains/internal recording. (as it is on the F5/F55)
 
OK so tell me if I have this right -
You can use SLog3 in Custom mode and you have all the color controls you want, but no LUT's - neither Viewfinder LUT's or ability to record the LUT itself .
Well that's a drag. I still don't get why they couldn't make the LUT's available in Custom mode then. Still doesn't seem like a complete system for a DP. How does Alexa handle this?
 
Not sure if this has already been discussed but this thread is really long and I haven't had time to sift through the whole thing.

Does anyone know if this camera will be compatible within the limits of the letus helix 3 axis stanilizer? That is important for me.
 
I haven't shot with the FS7 yet. But if the sensor has the same Signal-Noise Ratio as the F5, it should be all but noiseless. I rate my F5 at 2000ISO, I don't expose to the right or get tricky in any way with my exposure - and the result is stupidly clean, noiseless footage. I suspect if anyone is having noise issues with this camera, they're either fluffing their exposures or their grading.

hf96Bep.jpg


^
Those are the exposure values for black, grey and white with the various SLOG gammas. Expose to those values and you will have ZERO issues to complain about.
 
Thanks for that Grug, so for caucasian skintones are you looking somewhere in the 45-50% range for slog 3? Just trying to get my head right after years of Redlogfilm.
 
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