FS7: New Sony F7 XDCAM 4K Super 35mm Camcorder

starcentral said:
Wow these look great for future FS7 owners.

I trust everyone has already seen these as per the other thread, but incase you haven't....

View attachment 92131
Click to expand...

Yes.

Seen already from other manufacturers too. Sony just comes a little late, but the position of the
output socket seems to be just right!

NEw Swit:
http://www.swit.us/s8u63-battery-for-sony-pmw18631002003113.html

Old Swit:
http://www.bandpro.de/de/content/swit-s-8972-dc-output-dv-battery

Beillen:
http://shop.equiprent.de/Akkus-und-...W-Camcorder-ersetzt-Sony-BP-U60-65Wh::53.html

Sony:
https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-broadcastcameras/cat-xdcam/product-BPU60T/
 
JMartin said:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...corder&p=1986477745&viewfull=1#post1986477745

I'm glad that the industry is apparently so healthy that so many people are willing to throw money down pre-ordering cameras without full and proper testing (again).

But I think you are very wise to wait, not least because after the initial rush there'll be the discounted bundles with lenses and/or accessories, just like there was for the Fs100, FS700, F5... Not to mention the paid firmware updates that eventually get bundled in...
Click to expand...

It's always risky to be an early adopter of todays electronical products. Very often it feels like you're a BETA tester...
Nevertheless, if you want a camera just now and the FS7 seems to be right: No need to buy another camera.
And if your dealer makes indeed a nice "early bird" price - why not?
If you want a certain image character or special things (like 4k instead of UHD or SLog2) you better wait until it's
proven to work properly.


The ones who like it safe always need the ones who jump in first, right?
 
If the FS7 was a totally new camera then yes it would make little sense to order one before I could try it. To me there's actually very little that's new compared to either the FS700 or F5 as far as sensor to codec goes. Both FS700 and F5 looks good enough. I even considered to sell my F3 and FS100 in favour of getting a FS700+4k recorder, I'm glad I didn't because is see the FS7 as superior to the FS700 and much less expensive than the F5.

Those who look at the footage so far and don't like it, the safest option is to be on hold before the FS7 is in users hands and footage plus quirks becomes known. It won't be the perfect camera but it ticks my list of features.
 
Sony (https://twitter.com/Sony_DMPCE) have another FS7 bash at Pinewood (in fact a couple) - Im hoping I might be able to attend/take footage etc - most important is to actually ask the Sony types what is the 'official' workflow. If I get to do some tests my 'reference' camera will be my Nikon D3 in stills mode - which is what I want to match.

S
 
I've tried to contact them. To me there is only value if..

1) we set a scene

2) we choose exposure (under their guidance)

3) we go through post and leave with an acceptable image.
 
Sony will tell you the official workflow is grade the slog images in post, and if they are aware of it, tell you that there are a few LUTs available that are excellent points to start grading.
 
I'm wondering if the FS7 will have anamorphic ability? What's the camera technical process for anamorphic again aside from the lenses? The F5/55 can shoot anamorphic, correct?
 
Since the lens itself does the squeezing, all that's requires to support it is de-squeezing the image in the viewfinder. But there are different squeeze ratios and not even the F5/55 goes out of its way to support the variations.
 
starcentral said:
Sony will tell you the official workflow is grade the slog images in post, and if they are aware of it, tell you that there are a few LUTs available that are excellent points to start grading.
Click to expand...

Well the lot at Pinewood run 'courses' they are next building to Reducation (!) - I want them to show me exposure choice to finished deliverable.
 
starcentral said:
Since the lens itself does the squeezing, all that's requires to support it is de-squeezing the image in the viewfinder. But there are different squeeze ratios and not even the F5/55 goes out of its way to support the variations.
Click to expand...

So basically most lower mid-range (FS700) to high end cameras (F55) can do anamorphic, it's just whether the viewfinder can de-squeeze the image? I never knew it was as simple as that. But then again, I guess it's not all that simple or everyone would have done it.
 
anamorphic glass squeezes the widescreen image onto regular size sensor or film... later on in post you desqueeze it, or similarly in theatres the lenses on the projector would desqueeze it to make a widescreen projection.

same idea. the fancy cameras let you desqueeze in-camera for monitoring purposes.
 
I'm sure UHD and full 4k will look just like what will come out of the F5 when Sony get the 4k upgrade for that camera in place. It's a direct read from the sensor more or less. But a pitfall can be if they cut a few corners in the down converting process to 1080p. Dan stated that the FS7 made beautiful 1080 but then again could he had said anything else in making a promo piece for Sony?

I find the best footage so far from the actual Sony release videos. It shows good UHD, far away from the overly sharpened and artificial AX100 in UHD. Slow motion clips looks fine with just a bit of increased noise if looked close. Colours are muted and both videos have a very flat look applied. Probably due to them wanting to show of dynamic range. By doing that I can see more of how flat it can be and knowing Slog well I see the potential. It's just like how I shoot, it looks dull and boring before grading due to the flat curve.

The other videos released so far are a mixture of hit and miss. Some things looks good others look way off. I really can't judge much from them.

To be honest most videos showing the new F5 and F55 looks worse than the best of F3 videos. Just as Sony cameras always have had the approach to make technically correct cameras rather than something that breathes real life. I believe the key ingredients towards great, involving footage from any camera is imperfection. So there will be a struggle to mould the highly resolved, technically correct footage from Sony cameras into something that evokes emotions.

With that in mind not even the demo videos for the FS7 are pleasing to my senses but they do show, in pure technical aspects what's the camera is about.
 
Osslund said:
To be honest most videos showing the new F5 and F55 looks worse than the best of F3 videos. Just as Sony cameras always have had the approach to make technically correct cameras rather than something that breathes real life. I believe the key ingredients towards great, involving footage from any camera is imperfection.
Click to expand...


IMO Imperfection does not lead to good cameras.

Sony are technically good but they seem to deviate from my ideas of good (which are led by my 2005 hasselblad and 2008 Nikon D3 and.. film)

Sony have an obsession with broadcast legal - this made them invent 'knee' which is horrid to my eye - I prefer a clip to that flattening look.

Watching the World Cup (I guess sony) one can see that compression of wide DR to the legal space has its place as it enables things like filming a football match in both shade and light - it looks horrible but is the best compromise for live.

The other thing Sony allow is clipping of a specific colour channel - Im not sure where I sit with this but I think I feel that bright should be represented as white (255 255 255) not as a clip (100, 255, 100) etc

Canon and Nikon seem to have the right concept of rolling all clips to a 255,255,255 clip - that feels right to me.

---

As for the downscaling - it is not too good IMO from the F5, the F3 does better 1080 (in camera IMO) than the F5 - my plan with the FS7 would be to shoot 4k unless HFR and downscale (possibly to 444) at home.

You can see the downscale causing magenta fringing on the F5 in my F5vsFS100 test.. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33167160/ouch.jpg I would expect similar from the FS7 in HD mode.

S
 
yeah I do see the magenta fringing- was that the same lens ?
I have never actually compared the F5 to F3 . A number of people told me it was better looking but I'm surprised & a little concerned to see that magenta. Didn't even know that could be a consequence of the down convert.

It looks like a chromatic aberration lens issue though as there is also green on the other side. Definitely worse on the F5 but I also see it on the FS100 shot. The F5 is much sharper (as well as slightly brighter) so its possible that its just revealing what is actually a lens issue hidden by the softness of the FS100.
Add to that possible differences in detail settings and at least to me its not clear that it would be a downscaling issue.
I'm not contradicting you though as I don't know squat about downscaling, just adding another point of view.

Chromatic aberration is pretty much endemic to using Still lenses even Zeiss. That's one of the main things you pay for when the cost shoots up on real cine glass - Its not just focus throw. (too bad I can't afford the good stuff) Often its a trade off as the sharper the lens the more fringing.


Lenny
 
Last edited:
morgan_moore said:
IMO Imperfection does not lead to good cameras.
Click to expand...

So true. That's why the imperfection is on the user and not the camera hence with so few videos made and published from this camera we have nothing to evoke us. Yet! Because I plan on making several imperfect shots.

I regard 1080p from the F3 extremely high. Nothing added just good resolved 1080. It's the beauty from the 3.45MP sensor, start downscaling from more pixels needed and artefacts will occur. I don't see fringing to be a big issue in your comparison but it's there. I believe I seen a few similar things from my F3 when pushed with hard high contrast objects but none has posed any problems in post.
 
Lenilenapi said:
It looks like a chromatic aberration lens issue though as there is also green on the other side.

Lenny
Click to expand...

Im not seeing any green?

The F5 had a new CP2 - my FS100 had a (1985?) nikkor 28/2 - a pretty haggard lens - one of my £100 specials - actually my worst one (!) - that is soft open - but I dont know the ap that was shot at.

Safe to say the FS100 had a softer lens which would - both soften the image and also reduce such abberations.

But that magenta - I can smell it is part of the file not the glass.

S
 
Last edited:
Osslund,
I thought HD from the F3 looked good until I saw the FS700 4K2HD downconverted from 4KRaw on the 7Q. IMHO blew the F3 away. That's coming from an F3 owner. Mitch told me to check it out at NAB and might have something to add here.

"But that magenta - I can smell it is part of the file not the glass"

Hope your nose is better than mine. Green-magenta fringing on contrasty hard edges is characteristic of longitudinal aberration which is worse when wide open and often worse on sharper glass and only shows up at the moment of sharpest focus. The CP2's are the same as the ZF glass optically which I own and they definitely have CA wide open. The 35mm is particularly bad and in fact the 35mm f1.4 is terrible. wide lenses usually worse than long lenses and you're using a 28 here. Try shooting just a classic resolution chart and it will jump out at you.

Like I said I don't know squat about down converting but … just saying...
 
Last edited:
Osslund said:
I don't see fringing to be a big issue in your comparison
Click to expand...

I didn't see it as an issue either - what I did see was that the 1080 from the F5 was not $12000 better than my FS100.. that test lead me to buy the F3 :) which I thought was an FS100 with ND - it is actually better than that!

To me the attraction of the FS7 is mainly HFR and ergonomics/mass/onboard broadcast+ codecs. I don't really care about image quality although I would like better roll off and more bend in the grade than the FS100

S
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top