FS7: New Sony F7 XDCAM 4K Super 35mm Camcorder

Lenilenapi said:
I agree with you about 28-135 . Personally I think it was a mistake on their part if video people was their primary market.
Put an EF m and let it work with speed booster and I'd be down in a second.

So that leaves the Sony 18-105 ESLP with instant correction, the Zeiss 16-70, or the Canon 24-105 w speed booster which amounts (I think) to a 16-105 at f2.8.

i think they all have stabilization (which is the big deal for me) and the 18-105 has power zoom and AF if needed . The big question is how do they look and how sharp are they? Have to try out all 3 I guess.
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Ahhh.....and now you see why I suspect something else coming from Sony. Well that lens (28-135) plus the fact that they seem
to 'repurpose' sensors in multiple cameras. VG20/30/NEX5N. F3/FS100. F5/FS700/FS7 (not confirmed but it sure wouldn't surprise me).
Then there is the full frame A7S. Now if they were to take that sensor (which is capable of high speed and 4k) and put it in a video
camera body with built in ND's, XLR's, a similar style to the F7S.......do you think a few people might buy it?? And if they did, do
you think a 28-135 F4 lens with power zoom might be a perfect kit lens for it???? And this is one reason I am staying with my FS700
a little longer instead of spending money on the FS7. I think my 'upgrade money' will be hoarded for a little while.....

The Sony 18-105 has horrible pincushion distortion on the FS700. However, it had great autofocus (Seriously!), OSS stabilization, power
zoom, internal zoom (so lens didn't extend at all) and a really nice range. Plus, on my VG20 (which has the built in error correction)
it looked great! I would expect that the FS7 will have firmware to deal with that lens (and a firmware update coming 'soon' for the FS700
will let it work on that camera as well). For normal speed, HD shooting, it would be a really good range. However, part of the appeal
of the FS700 to me, is all the different ways I can use it, timelapse, high frame rates, and so on. I may be inclined to just go with
a speedbooster and a 24-105 at that point, you'd lose a little range but you could use it for HFR and 4K without issues. What Sony
should really do, is make another version of the 18-105 that is optically very good and doesn't require the error correction, but don't
change anything else. It's perfect range and lots of nice features. I'd pay more than $598 for it if it was optically good and could be
used for HFR and 4K shooting.
 
You got me worried there!

FS7 fullframe would be excellent - Simple cheap lenses like a 28 2.8 just sing on FF - my 18/4 is always a struggle in comparison

My 28-85 is ok on my FS100 with a booster but a lot of people froget/dont realise that a booster increases the effective minimum focus distance

The 28-135 has no interest to me for S35.. but for FF would be completely ideal in every way

it seems that FF lenses are just simpler to build 24-105s being affordable while 18-XX zooms are challenged or uber expensive
 
Ahh..

The run'n gun lens question again and again.

Why the heck does Sony introduce a new nice cine zoom lens at a veery attractive price point for 35mm?
If the plan to do a 35mm pro videocamera, they should have introduced those two together.

Now, we have a new S35 sensor camera, which is very nice and has tremendous features. But it lacks an
affordable run'n gun lens option.
On the other side w e have the same sort of affordable nice cine zoom that lacks the right camera...

Is it just Sony doing things like this? Did they just forget that S35 is different than 35mm aka FF?

I don't know, but it makes me feel Sony is doing half-baked cakes again... even that I love the FS7
so far. I like it for the r'n g construction. But where's the lens for it?

I might start with a Canon 24-105 too, but it's just an okay-solution as the range is not huge and
the light loss towards the end of the focal range plus the sensitivity to flares with the speedbooster.

I'm waiting for an affordable S35 R'n G lens for years now. I would even accept a 35mm lens which is
better than the current Canon 24-105. Maybe a 24-120/4,0 with IS...
 
I was just reading that the FS7 does not have a replaceable OLPF like the F5 and F55 do. Any idea about how this will affect the pics?

Lenny
 
Yep.

THE OLPF is made/optimized for the 4k resolution (as the standard one is in F5/55).
If you use the HD resolution, the OLPF is just to fine and will allow more moiré...
 
We have to see, how much it will be.

IMO best would be to film in 4k and reduce to HD in post...

Edit: The HD resolution will be downsampled from the 4k image (up to 60fps)

You can also choose the rexolution you want - there's no 2k punch in S16 area, that
the F5/55 has
 
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Almost everything I've shot with the F5 (same sensor, and one would assume same 4k OLPF) to date, has been in 1080p or 2k. The number of OLPF-related downsampling issues I've encountered in that time come to a grand total of ZERO... so I don't think it's a matter worth losing much sleep over.
 
Sometimes you guys really give me a laugh. The FS7 just announced and you're already worried that there wil be an FS7 replacement in the future and it will be full frame? How do you ever sleep at night?

I have astounding news for you. Sony will keep on introducing new cameras. There is usually one or maybe two within a price category every year or two. These cameras will always be better than what came before, because it would be madness to go the other direction. (I love it when a company releases a product as "our best ever!" If it wasn't better, why would you make it?)

A camera is a tool. It has a viability lifespan. When it is released, if it is a significant improvement for your work that justifies its purchase then you buy it and use it. You should expect it to be superceded in a couple of years max. If you can stretch anything more from it that is gravy. So the value calculation has to be if that purchase justifis itself over the next year or two. If it does then the conversation is over. If not then don't bother.

In other words, don't CARE what other camera may come along -- how do I feel about this one?
 
Mitch Gross said:
Sometimes you guys really give me a laugh. The FS7 just announced and you're already worried that there wil be an FS7 replacement in the future and it will be full frame? How do you ever sleep at night?

I have astounding news for you. Sony will keep on introducing new cameras. There is usually one or maybe two within a price category every year or two. These cameras will always be better than what came before, because it would be madness to go the other direction. (I love it when a company releases a product as "our best ever!" If it wasn't better, why would you make it?)

A camera is a tool. It has a viability lifespan. When it is released, if it is a significant improvement for your work that justifies its purchase then you buy it and use it. You should expect it to be superceded in a couple of years max. If you can stretch anything more from it that is gravy. So the value calculation has to be if that purchase justifis itself over the next year or two. If it does then the conversation is over. If not then don't bother.

In other words, don't CARE what other camera may come along -- how do I feel about this one?
Click to expand...

This should be a sticky.

Having said that... ...Did you you see the new Leica?

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/...ast-with-the-m-240-edition-60-vintage-modern/
 
Lenilenapi said:
I was just reading that the FS7 does not have a replaceable OLPF like the F5 and F55 do. Any idea about how this will affect the pics?
Click to expand...

Just to add some clarity about OLPF since it can be confusing and complicated given all the potential modes on this camera, the only time the OLPF on the FS7 is going to be a potential issue is when the camera is "pixel binning" in order to achieve High Frame Rates.

Basically how pixel binning works is that a group of 4 pixels act as 1 new pixel which depending on the scene can give a similar effect that you might see with "line skipping" used on many popular DSLR's. Moire tends to be less an issue but you will see aliasing along edges going through a frame, especially any slightly diagonal ones, etc.. They will appear to have some small jaggies on it.

Of course given the FS7 hasn't been released yet, there's no telling if Sony has addressed this through some other method but I don't see how. Bascially the issue boils down to the heat generated that would be required to read the sensor line by line at very fast frame rates (about 7.5 times above normal) and also at very high frame rates you lose the sensor sensitivity because you are reading it so fast so the "binning" approach helps solve some of these issues. The downside are the jaggies.


Regarding 4K -> 2K/HD downscaling in camera or in post there is no problem with the 4K OLPF because as others have pointed out the camera is capturing in 4K and doing its own downscaling. It's very good, and results in very nice sharp images.



Mitch Gross said:
Sometimes you guys really give me a laugh. The FS7 just announced and you're already worried that there wil be an FS7 replacement in the future and it will be full frame? How do you ever sleep at night?
Click to expand...

It is being replaced, with the FS9 in 18 months from what history has shown us. :huh:
 
What makes the FS7 a confident purchase for me is that there is no feature I feel its missing. Nothing is missing for me that if something comes out in 6-12 months and adds a feature. I'm buying it for the camera it is now and will be for a money making tool.
 
RatLabProductions said:
What makes the FS7 a confident purchase for me is that there is no feature I feel its missing. Nothing is missing for me that if something comes out in 6-12 months and adds a feature. I'm buying it for the camera it is now and will be for a money making tool.
Click to expand...

there ya go. if its got what you want/need, doesnt matter whats on the horizon.

it pretty much ticks all the boxes i could ever want, and i haven't gotten a chance to hold it yet but i imagine my only minor gripe will be that it's not a tad smaller.

don't put the camera on a pedestal, it's useless unless used to good effect :)
 
Mitch Gross said:
Sometimes you guys really give me a laugh. The FS7 just announced and you're already worried that there wil be an FS7 replacement in the future and it will be full frame? How do you ever sleep at night?
Click to expand...

It's always easy to judge about other peoples "problems".

But if you need a new camera and want a R'n G lens in the affordable range, it can be a problem if Sony goes FF more and more.
Neither Zeiss nor Canon, Fuji or whoever will produce "cinezooms" in the 2-3k$ range. This can only be Sony with a native E-Mount lens.
The 18-200 is awkward and slow, the 18-105 is so bad that it really won't work without electronic lens compensation, the 28-135 (which is very nice) is to long for most of us.

Is this funny for someone?
Maybe.

Should we better take a PMW-200 or PXW-70 style camera with small sensor?
Maybe.

Are we nuts to care about the future of camera development?
Maybe.

But all of this brought me where I am today, still working with my FS100 and producing footage that most people think it comes from their newer and bigger brothers.
I use awkward Sony lenses with a long range and adopted fast Canon lenses where I need them.
I would love to have at least one lens which fits the FS7 for R'n G (long range, fast enough, manual focusable etcetc.)
 
mitch gross said:
sometimes you guys really give me a laugh. The fs7 just announced and you're already worried that there wil be an fs7 replacement in the future and it will be full frame? How do you ever sleep at night?

I have astounding news for you. Sony will keep on introducing new cameras. There is usually one or maybe two within a price category every year or two. These cameras will always be better than what came before, because it would be madness to go the other direction. (i love it when a company releases a product as "our best ever!" if it wasn't better, why would you make it?)

a camera is a tool. It has a viability lifespan. When it is released, if it is a significant improvement for your work that justifies its purchase then you buy it and use it. You should expect it to be superceded in a couple of years max. If you can stretch anything more from it that is gravy. So the value calculation has to be if that purchase justifis itself over the next year or two. If it does then the conversation is over. If not then don't bother.

In other words, don't care what other camera may come along -- how do i feel about this one?
Click to expand...

qftmft
 
In the end - the FS7 is the camera I was waiting for.

The SEL PZ 28-135 is the lens I was waiting for, but it's definitely meant for 35mm aka FF and Speedboosters won't work because of the flange distance.
 
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