FS7: New Sachtler FSB-10 vs Sachtler 18 or 20

Vintegreo said:
I'm trying to decide between a new or fairly new Sachtler FSB10:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1277778-REG/sachtler_1049_fsb_10_eng_2.html

Or a used Sachtler 18 or 20 with the the same or similar legs.

Thoughts?
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If you go with the 18 or 20 over the FSB10, 90% of the time you will be glad you did. The other 10% of the time you will wish that you bought the more lightweight FSB10.

I bought a Sachtler 20 with the ENG2 legs and I love it except for when I have to carry it for any extended period of time. It's a beast.
 
JPNola said:
If you go with the 18 or 20 over the FSB10, 90% of the time you will be glad you did. The other 10% of the time you will wish that you bought the more lightweight FSB10.

I bought a Sachtler 20 with the ENG2 legs and I love it except for when I have to carry it for any extended period of time. It's a beast.
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I'll echo the same sentiments. My ancient 20p with the ENG legs just keeps on ticking away, I have loaded so much stuff on it yet it remains silky smooth and I've never had it serviced.

And yes, it is a bugger to carry even with the carbon fibre legs!
 
I'm no sure what camera your shooting with, but I'd go for the bigger system. I bought the FSB10 back in 2013 for my EX1R and replaced it 2 years later with an O'Connor head when I got an F55. The heaver tripods are a PITA to pack around but so worth it.

Just noticed this is in the F7 section. Now I know what you're shooting with. :0
 
I've had those same Sachtler CF2 legs since '98 and they're still going strong with no repairs needed. I use them with a newer 18S head. If you're shooting a FS7 without full cine-style load all the time, that smaller 10 head may be all you need. Or want.
 
also had an 18p for about 15 years or more.. although twice had the gears done.once tilt, once pan.. and those legs.. (there are newer single release ones)..never needed paid maintenance .. with F5/CN7 zoom.. Zacuto base plate.. its really the the lightest "real" tripod around.. off ground spreader is a must..

Tripods like parachutes.. never a good idea to get the cheaper one..
 
Donny 123 said:
off ground spreader is a must..

Tripods like parachutes.. never a good idea to get the cheaper one..
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Interested in this observation. I've almost always used legs with ground-level spreaders. What advantages do off-ground spreaders offer (apart from when working on very bumpy/rocky ground?).

Cheers,

jason
 
Off-ground spreaders are just a lot easier to deal with in general, especially moving around a lot. The Sachtlers allow you to easily dial in the spread of the legs if you need to "skinny up" up in close quarters.
They also fold up quickly and properly every time.
 
I've used both and could go either way on them. I love the mid-level spreader when I want the legs on surfaces that are uneven -- a set of steps or sloping ground for example. However, if I'm on a flat floor, I love being able to put my feet on the ground spreader, unlock the legs and raise it up to the height I want all at once.
 
JCummings said:
Off-ground spreaders are just a lot easier to deal with in general, especially moving around a lot. The Sachtlers allow you to easily dial in the spread of the legs if you need to "skinny up" up in close quarters.
They also fold up quickly and properly every time.
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What he said.^^

And if you have ever had to use a tripod in a muddy location, you will know why the mid-spreaders are preferable to the ground spreaders. Mid-spreaders add a bit of weight but more than make up for it with their many advantages over ground-spreaders. They make for less torque flex when panning with a heavy resistance setting. Just overall more 'Pro', imo.

One trick I use when needing to move quickly is to have the spreader set so that it is not in a horizontal placement. The reason being that when speed is needed you can just collapse the legs without having to first lift up on the mid-spreader.

Sachtler 18 is the standard. While definitely usable as a day to day tripod, it isn't a lightweight tripod. Any lighter-weight tripod is going to make sacrifices in order to achieve that lighter weight. The smallest I would go in the Sachtler family would be the FSB10. The DV12 is really the starting point of the better Sachtler heads. Don't go smaller than a 100mm head unless it is for a specialty need where light weight is of high priority.
 
jasonbrooks said:
Interested in this observation. I've almost always used legs with ground-level spreaders. What advantages do off-ground spreaders offer (apart from when working on very bumpy/rocky ground?).

Cheers,

jason
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Hi Jason

I just found after I made the move..reason following ! there was no going back.. so much better for a ton of reasons.. most mentioned.. but another is they don't wear out !. I was in Japan with my Sachtler tripod and spreader.. shooting in tatami (straw mat rooms).. and 2 of the pins that hold the on ground spreader in the centre broke !! end of shooting that day on any interiors ..and another had to be couriered down from Tokyo.. the whole thing can go pear shaped if those pins break or come out..and the plastic/rubber itself also breaks.. bound to its in contact with the ground all the time.. which they do.. off ground spreader this will never happen.. at most you replace the rubber feet.. honesty I dont see how anyone would go back to on ground spreader ..it would be like going back to a BW view finder .. I haven't even seen anyone using an on ground spreader for years.. do they even still make them.. unless your in a studio all your working life I cant think of any reason to stay with on ground spreader.. its really been one bit of gear that has made shooting easier and actually better.. I can get shots that literally you could do with the on ground..
 
Donny 123 said:
Hi Jason

I just found after I made the move..reason following ! there was no going back.. so much better for a ton of reasons.. most mentioned.. but another is they don't wear out !. I was in Japan with my Sachtler tripod and spreader.. shooting in tatami (straw mat rooms).. and 2 of the pins that hold the on ground spreader in the centre broke !! end of shooting that day on any interiors ..and another had to be couriered down from Tokyo.. the whole thing can go pear shaped if those pins break or come out..and the plastic/rubber itself also breaks.. bound to its in contact with the ground all the time.. which they do.. off ground spreader this will never happen.. at most you replace the rubber feet.. honesty I dont see how anyone would go back to on ground spreader ..it would be like going back to a BW view finder .. I haven't even seen anyone using an on ground spreader for years.. do they even still make them.. unless your in a studio all your working life I cant think of any reason to stay with on ground spreader.. its really been one bit of gear that has made shooting easier and actually better.. I can get shots that literally you could do with the on ground..
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I'm glad Jason asked that question -- I had never given much consideration to the pros and cons of a ground vs mid-level spreader!
 
Vintegreo said:
I'm glad Jason asked that question -- I had never given much consideration to the pros and cons of a ground vs mid-level spreader!
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Another reason ..re an earlier poster who likes to have one foot on the spreader.. I used to do that too.. but with the off ground.. Sachtler anyway .. you can easily adjust the "spread" of the legs.. the "neutral" position is actually wider than the on ground spreader angle.. so you tripod is steady anyway.. and doesnt "lift" off the ground.. but you can also narrow the angle too if you want..
Really its not up for debate .. the off ground spreader will change how you shoot for the better .. and its far easier to actually work with.. and will be cheaper in the long run as its not wearing out.. also can keep on when mounting say a Wally Dolly.. there cant be a rental house on earth that isnt using them.. I dont have shares in Sachtler .. but honestly I wish I had moved over earlier ... if you haven't.. buy one tomorrow .. it will have an immediate impact on how you shoot..
 
Well thanks everyone who's chimed in as the "mid-level spreader advocates group", between you all I'm pretty much convinced that I should try one. In particular the mention of minimising torsion on high-drag pans sounds appealing, as I have on occasion noticed this effect, which isn't a huge problem *during* a pan, but I find rather makes it much harder to get a perfectly smooth start and finish to the pan, as both the fluid drag, and the legs' internal bending combine/interfere frustratingly.

I've also experienced a floor-level spreader's central tri-joint fail on me during a shoot, although fortunately I was able to fix it with a trusty heavy-duty zip tie! :)

In any case, as I say I'm gonna try one out. I was frustrated to see that the Sachtler mid-level costs around £500 FFS - more than my first tripod! Of course it's probably well enough made to justify the price, but I can't help but wonder if some chinese knock-off artistes have managed to make a compatible, cheaper alternative.

Anyone know of any third party spreaders? I've searched the interwebs but can't find anything...

Cheers,

jason
 
You might also want to look at using double tube legs on all stages, (2:2:2) to reduce any torque from using a lot of drag. Not a big deal on wider lenses, but if you start using longer lenses, you'll notice kickback at the end of a pan on 2:1:1 or possibly 2:2:1 legs.
 
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