ahalpert
Major Contributor
Is this a bird joke?
New RED V-RAPTOR 8K VV 120FPS Camera
- Thread starter Teddy_Dem
- Start date
Is this a bird joke?
jonpais
Well-known member
Unlike your posts, dead serious.
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So are you buying one?
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Unlike my posts, dead serious? Relax, dude.
Anyway - the point I was making about framerates was not that there is a comparable offering for high-resolution HFR in the price tier. (Although the Ursa 12K comes to mind. 25% of the cost for 8K 120fps, the only difference being that it's super 35. And of course mirrorless cameras can now do full-frame 4K120fps.) But it was just an observation that cameras in every price tier are advancing in max framerates for a given resolution.
My question, concerning the underlying tech, is if the trend will continue or if it will reach a natural limit. If it can continue, then eventually you will get phantom-quality food and beverage-capable framerates available in very cheap cameras, which would be interesting.
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Grug
Veteran
XL looks GREAT. Ranger is solid, but XL seems to have refined the approach even further.
- SDI and 3x AUX power up front? Terrific! That'll reduce those irritating long cable runs up along the side/top of the body
- The new control panel? Looks like a welcome relief for ACs! (compared to the old side panel)
- 5x AUX power outputs? Brilliant. No need for any external power-routing gack(!)
- Internal NDs? At long bloody last! (have they confirmed whether it'll be optical ND or eND?)
- Built-in scratch microphones? Love those
- A proper, no-nonsense, interchangeable mount system? Essential.
This basically addresses ALL of the ergonomic and operational features that I've been clamouring for, for years. So very exciting on that front.
A much faster boot time looks like it's the last operational feature Red need to nail down (do we know how long Raptor takes yet?).
The only physical feature I could really think of to add (and it's just a small luxury really) is a series of tally lights like Sony's FX6 employs. They've put these long, illuminated tally "strips" on the top edges of the camera body (on both sides and at the rear), which provides this lovely, and reassuring visual confirmation everytime you're recording - no matter what side of the camera you're operating from. It not a feature you'd think of, but once you've used it, it's a lovely thing that just constantly helps lower your stress levels on set. So it'd be a lovely additional feature to throw in there.
Size wise, it looks like the XL body will be pretty close to current Ranger 8" long, 6" tall, and 5" wide. So basically the same height and length, but an inch or so slimmer.
I think that's a nice size. It seems to be about as small as you can make any conventional production camera build (with all of the normal accessories you need to add). And with all of the I/O built-in to the XL body, there's no rigging gack to add that'll expand it out. You just slap on a battery, and rig your handle/baseplate/evf/wireless bits as you normally would. Should allow for some extremely clean camera builds.
Hopefully weight-wise they can keep it to 3kg or so. That would be lighter than the MILF (with the cage you're forced to use it with).
Grug
Veteran
And here's the Raptor with it's "Production Pack". Which apart from the silly central monitor setup, looks REALLY tidy.
Enough I/O for most people's needs, 4x AUX power outputs (2x DTAP, 2x Lemo), and neatly integrated top and side plates, with all the mounting points you could ask for.
And all in a TINY package.
It may actually be enough for me to consider an (irritating) RF to PL-mount solution.
Enough I/O for most people's needs, 4x AUX power outputs (2x DTAP, 2x Lemo), and neatly integrated top and side plates, with all the mounting points you could ask for.
And all in a TINY package.
It may actually be enough for me to consider an (irritating) RF to PL-mount solution.
Grug
Veteran
No word yet. Raptor matches the $25k price point of the Ranger Gemini. I'm hoping they can bring it in at the same price as Ranger Helium $30k (they would sell lots at that price), but maybe $35k is more realistic.
rob norton
Veteran
Do you think owner/operators will find themselves in a similar situation but on a smaller scale as mini LF owners, where people are too scared to stand firm on pricing and the "standard rate" will fall below what it should be?
****Please no anecdotes of RED rental prices on sharegrid in Los Angeles (not directed at Grug), let's keep talking about the V-Raptor XL.
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Grug
Veteran
I'm not really expecting much to change from how things are currently. Agency jobs, and studio/streaming features/series pay the normal rental rates for the highest-end cameras (with hefty discounts from rental houses for long-form rentals), and everyone else will continue scrambling around in the mud for whatever they can scrounge.
The mid-range of the camera market has been oddly empty these last few years - as everything's been either $100,000 Alexa/Venice packages or FX6/Ursa Mini/C300iii type cameras. So it'll be interesting to have the midrange of the market back.
Rental rates have fallen so low on things like the MILF (which seems to frequently go out for 1% daily rental rates) that owner-operating a high-end camera really doesn't make sense any more (for most people, at least).
But using cheap prosumer cameras (like the FX6/Ursa Mini) is a major headache for anyone working in conventional production environments (with camera/lighting/grip crew) because they're so janky to rig and operate.
So if I had to hazard a guess. I suspect a bunch of us are going to weather the financial burden of this new crop of mid-range cameras, because it'll make our lives easier on-set (having proper prooduction-oriented cameras again). And at $20-30k USD, they're hopefully going to be managable-enough cost-wise that they won't send anyone broke.
No one can tell the difference between the image-quality of any of these current cameras anyway, so I really think the whole thing is going to be driven by functionality and convenience (which, to be fair, is something I'm happy to pay for). But yeah, I fear it'll be owner-operator weathering most of the cost of the upgrades.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Do you just mean the Raptor? What else is selling in this price tier? Everything I can think of that's new is <$15K or >$50K. It looks like the Amira is selling for $35K now but it's not as current
Grug
Veteran
There are rumblings of several new camera announcements coming soon (maybe at NAB?), from Sony and Canon are the two I’ve heard.
NorBro
Major Contributor
I think the best thing about this camera is it will force others to be better.
Not necessarily speaking about I/O as that's likely least important to most people (although very important to the ones who truly need it), but pure specs for hardware from other companies.
This camera smells like Blackmagic 8K full-frame in the air...
Not necessarily speaking about I/O as that's likely least important to most people (although very important to the ones who truly need it), but pure specs for hardware from other companies.
This camera smells like Blackmagic 8K full-frame in the air...
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I sort of feel like any camera becomes a good investment if you can put it to work on enough shoot days. Maybe not the BEST investment you could have made, but still a profitable one. The only real problem is a camera you can't put to work, no?
Liam Hall
Veteran
Yup. 100%.
The trick is being honest with yourself and then choosing the right camera for the majority of work you do that allows you to capture the images you want/need in the quality the exceeds what your client wants/needs.
G
Guest
Guest
Agreed.
rob norton
Veteran
Easier said than done! Timing is critical too. Not that I would know but I feel like early V-Raptor XL adoption could likely end in tears, or at least start out in tears. It seems like there's a sweet spot of 6-12 months to more accurately gauge if high end camera X will likely be an industry standard (therefore a safer purchase) for a few years.
I still can't completely justify leveling up to a C300 3 from my C200!
Grug
Veteran
God, I hope that's not how it goes - it's the I/O and functionality that manufacturers need to be lifting their game with (for speed and ease of use on-set), not the numbers game. That's what Sony finally did with the Venice, and it's now the first camera to genuinely challenge Alexa for broad uptake on big shows.
I'm not so sure on the timing thing any more. To (again) use Venice as an example - it seemed to basically just sit around for the first two years it was out, not doing an awful lot. But slowly more and more people used it, and word spread about how useful the 1-8 stops of internal ND, dual-ISO, 5-second boot time, and super-easy UI were, and now it's going gangbusters.
I think if you build a camera that's going to genuinely make people's lives easier on-set, they'll come to you eventually (once/if they realise you exist).