morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Hate cvp location shots with no ND at a sunny skatepark
New Panasonic MFT cine camera?
- Thread starter Ken1212
- Start date
ozmorphasis
Well-known member
I agree with this. The main attraction for this cam is using it remote controlled for events. For a sensor in a box "cinema" camera, I would turn elsewhere. Z cam being the obvious place, as I like the image better, better HFR options, and most notably...internal prores 4k up to 60p.
Nothing wrong with this camera, but because they are calling it a cinema camera, it's definitely gonna get compared against some stiff competition without adding a whole lot.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Oh its missing ProRAW photos, LiDar and Dolby HDR
I think this is a great camera for what it is. I can see myself rigging three of those with a Blackmagic switcher for conferences. They would be great for a studio show, churches, event centers and YouTube creators. For this particular use I really do not care about NDs as it's primarily use will be indoors. The interconnectivity it provides is great for $2k. This is more of a broadcast camera though and not a cinema camera. The fact that Panasonic called it a Cinema Camera makes me hopeful that they are about to release an S35/Full frame version/s that are true cinema cameras with ND and hopefully a solid 15 stop DR..
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I wonder who this camera is aimed at.
The people who wanted a Z-cam already bought one. Those wanting full frame or high frame rates can go w/a A7sIII. I'm guessing TV stations won't be falling over each other to buy this. Obviously, no photogs either. Hard to believe that Blackmagic or Canon cinema camera fans are going to swarm over to this. Gimbal/drone shooters are a stretch b/c of the lack of reliable AF & lack of in-body slow motion.
Speaking of which, this camera has no phase detect auto-focus, IBIS, screen, built-in ND, 4K above 60fps, 4:2:2 10 bit internal recording, XLR inputs, joystick, weather sealing, wave forms, vectorscopes, or Panasonic's best version of V-log. No improvements to the color science, or any other sort of unique feature not seen on some other Panny model.
Little to nothing which makes it an obvious upgrade from another system, or even Panasonic's own. In a year which has featured some amazing new cameras - including Panasonic's own S5 - this new release pales by comparison. A niche camera with several massive omissions (even for a box-style camera), a high price tag, and no innovation is not something that's going to make people re-think leaving the brand. True, there might be some limited use for this as a very high end web cam for corporations or TV stations, but I'm guessing even most of those users don't need genlock or SDI.
So again, who is this camera for? Just as with their "vlogging camera" released earlier this year, Panasonic seems to have vastly misunderstood in a fundamental way what the users of a particular style of camera actually want.
Simply put, marketing this as an indie film maker "cinema camera" indicates a profound lack misunderstanding of the market.
This camera looks and feels like Panasonic's way of blowing out some never used components on a shelf on the cheapest design they could steal, er, come up with. Even at $1000 this camera would be a questionable buy for most; at $2000 it seems borderline delusional....
Which, as it turns out, is exactly what the rumors would have lead us to believe.
The people who wanted a Z-cam already bought one. Those wanting full frame or high frame rates can go w/a A7sIII. I'm guessing TV stations won't be falling over each other to buy this. Obviously, no photogs either. Hard to believe that Blackmagic or Canon cinema camera fans are going to swarm over to this. Gimbal/drone shooters are a stretch b/c of the lack of reliable AF & lack of in-body slow motion.
Speaking of which, this camera has no phase detect auto-focus, IBIS, screen, built-in ND, 4K above 60fps, 4:2:2 10 bit internal recording, XLR inputs, joystick, weather sealing, wave forms, vectorscopes, or Panasonic's best version of V-log. No improvements to the color science, or any other sort of unique feature not seen on some other Panny model.
Little to nothing which makes it an obvious upgrade from another system, or even Panasonic's own. In a year which has featured some amazing new cameras - including Panasonic's own S5 - this new release pales by comparison. A niche camera with several massive omissions (even for a box-style camera), a high price tag, and no innovation is not something that's going to make people re-think leaving the brand. True, there might be some limited use for this as a very high end web cam for corporations or TV stations, but I'm guessing even most of those users don't need genlock or SDI.
So again, who is this camera for? Just as with their "vlogging camera" released earlier this year, Panasonic seems to have vastly misunderstood in a fundamental way what the users of a particular style of camera actually want.
Simply put, marketing this as an indie film maker "cinema camera" indicates a profound lack misunderstanding of the market.
This camera looks and feels like Panasonic's way of blowing out some never used components on a shelf on the cheapest design they could steal, er, come up with. Even at $1000 this camera would be a questionable buy for most; at $2000 it seems borderline delusional....
Which, as it turns out, is exactly what the rumors would have lead us to believe.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Im not up with live and switching. I do know that ethernet might be cool. Maybe this is a conference camera and has a level of (remote) control that is not available on DSLR or other 'cinema' cameras
In that case it could be useful. And it is a step up (image wise) from the ptz offereings which have tiny chips do they not?
In that case it could be useful. And it is a step up (image wise) from the ptz offereings which have tiny chips do they not?
With an upcoming firmware update one can stream, control and power the camera through a single ethernet cable.
filmguy123
Veteran
Darn, I was hoping this would turn out to be a sort of AF200 / mini EVA1.
Panasonic might announce something new or an update to the EVA1 shortly after Sony announces the full specs of the FX6 which will be before the C70 starts shipping next month.
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Harry Pallenberg
Well-known member
me too!
Joshua Cadmium
Well-known member
Panasonic is claiming 13 stops of DR, versus 12 on the GH5s. It's probably because the sensor is kept much cooler with the new fans, so the noise floor is lowered, but it may only be like a half a stop difference if they are rounding the GH5s down to 12 stops and the cooling just bumps it a hair over 13.
The SDI alone is a nice upgrade (I hate HDMI) but it's odd that it's only 3G.
The pricepoint of this camera really seems like it should have been closer to $1000, but I don't think I'm the target audience - it really seems aimed towards livestreaming.
Teddy_Dem
Well-known member
I wonder how they are getting 13 stops as V-log-L has a hard limit of 12 stops. I remember the threads discussing this when the GH5 and DVX200 were released.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?353855-GH5-V-LOG-Proper-Exposure
https://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/dvx4k/pdf/ag-dvx200_tech_brief_vol6_en.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu43TJH-Xrw
Maybe there is plan for an eventual RAW output that uses the full V-log?
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?353855-GH5-V-LOG-Proper-Exposure
https://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/dvx4k/pdf/ag-dvx200_tech_brief_vol6_en.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu43TJH-Xrw
Maybe there is plan for an eventual RAW output that uses the full V-log?
NorBro
Major Contributor
They are getting it by writing it down on paper and saying that's what it is, lol.
Teddy_Dem
Well-known member
Lol
My understanding of V-Log L is that it is essentially the same log curve as is used in full V-Log, but truncated in the top portion. So where full V-Log has 8-stops above and 8-stops below middle gray, V-Log L has the same 8-stops in the shadows, but only 4-stops in the highlights:
On previous Panasonic cameras with V-Log L, this showed up as a hard clip at around 79 IRE. So it's possible that what they have done with the BGH1, is just to nudge the clip point 1 stop higher, which would allow for 5-stops in the highlights and 8 in the shadows (13 overall). This is possible, because unlike say S-Log2 and S-Log3 which are entirely different log curves, V-Log and V-Log L are basically the same curve. Which in theory makes it possible to use the same LUTs whether shooting V-Log or V-Log L.
And the comparison between the GH5S and BGH1 at about 5 minutes into this video does seem to show that the BGH1 has more information in the highlights:
On previous Panasonic cameras with V-Log L, this showed up as a hard clip at around 79 IRE. So it's possible that what they have done with the BGH1, is just to nudge the clip point 1 stop higher, which would allow for 5-stops in the highlights and 8 in the shadows (13 overall). This is possible, because unlike say S-Log2 and S-Log3 which are entirely different log curves, V-Log and V-Log L are basically the same curve. Which in theory makes it possible to use the same LUTs whether shooting V-Log or V-Log L.
And the comparison between the GH5S and BGH1 at about 5 minutes into this video does seem to show that the BGH1 has more information in the highlights:
You can avoid the artificial hard clip in VLog-L by shooting HLG and get all the DR the sensor can capture.
G
Guest
Guest
So good!
G
Guest
Guest
Cool little camera.
"2020, the year of the box camera" haha.
"2020, the year of the box camera" haha.
High1ander
Well-known member
As others have pointed out I'm having a hard time seeing who will buy it. The crippled SDI-out makes it useless for 4K professional work, and 2000$ for only HD in a box is not gonna cut it.
IQ aside (we don't know it yet), the Blackmagic Micro Studio Camera 4K is 30-40% cheaper, got 6G SDI (not ideal for 4K but still makes it possible), raw recording i.e. you don't need extra recorders for gimbal work or drones to achieve highest quality...
It is just that I see no niche market for this camera to grab a hold on. If it would have had 12G SDI it would have been very possible to use it in 4K production. But now it just seems like a miss-matched Frankensteinian camera. For Panny's sake I hope they have a better idea on the market than me, cause I would like to see a "mark 2".
IQ aside (we don't know it yet), the Blackmagic Micro Studio Camera 4K is 30-40% cheaper, got 6G SDI (not ideal for 4K but still makes it possible), raw recording i.e. you don't need extra recorders for gimbal work or drones to achieve highest quality...
It is just that I see no niche market for this camera to grab a hold on. If it would have had 12G SDI it would have been very possible to use it in 4K production. But now it just seems like a miss-matched Frankensteinian camera. For Panny's sake I hope they have a better idea on the market than me, cause I would like to see a "mark 2".