New Panasonic AG-AC90 Featuring 3-1/4.7-inch CMOS sensors. $2,250

Donald Ong said:
1/4.7'' chips.... umm...
I dread to think how that would fair in low light.
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Backside illuminated MOS sensors should really boost low light performance. Maybe not up to the level of a 1/3" camera, but I would think they will be at least as good and probably notably better than the HMC40.

Also, I assume the occasional shallow DOF shots at long focal lengths like i can just about get with my current video cam are out of the question?
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Shallow DOF is not easy to get on a small-chip camcorder. 1/4" is hard enough, 1/4.7" is just going to make it a little harder. You can maybe get something at 100% zoom, but even then, not as much as the HMC40 did, because the HMC40 had a longer lens.
 
To me the only complaint about 1/4.7" chips is the performance, which is yet to be seen. If the AC90 can perform better than the 1/4.1" chips HMC40, or even better the 1/3" chips HMC150, then I don't see a problem with 1/4.7" chips.

To me, the DOF on a 1/3" or 1/4.7" is something, but not that big of an issue when we have 4/3" & super 35 & vista vision (full frame) cameras readily available for anyone who wants shallower DOF.
 
1/4.7" is smaller than the 1/4.1" sensors on Panasonic's consumer camcorders, which provided 1080p60 in 28Mbps AVCHD over two years ago. I don't think anyone is going to be buying this AG-AC90 camera for its image quality.
 
noirist said:
I don't think anyone is going to be buying this AG-AC90 camera for its image quality.
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And you say this, having never seen a single frame from it? That seems a tad premature, don't you think?

Yes the sensors are smaller. They're also brand new technology and incorporate backside illumination, so they should provide a substantial increase in image quality over the prior larger sensors. Should. We will see what they actually do once some footage gets released.
 
noirist said:
1/4.7" is smaller than the 1/4.1" sensors on Panasonic's consumer camcorders.... I don't think anyone is going to be buying this AG-AC90 camera for its image quality.
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No one bought HDSLRs for their image quality, first & foremost. If HDSLRs started at $50k for just the body, there would be no DSLR evolution. HDSLR cameras have taken off because of their cost, chip size, interchangeable lenses & then because their image quality was more than good enough for the price tag of $1k - $3k.

I'm sure the AC90 will have image quality that is good enough, if not better, for the market it is going after. Yes consumer cameras from 2 years ago might be able to compete in pure image quality, but they don't have the professional / prosumer features the AC90 has: three lens rings, XLR inputs, etc. etc. etc.
 
So if pixel shifting gives you 1.4 times the picture quality in each of the 2 directions, then the video is processed at a total of double the resolution. This should result in some super clean 1080p video that will rival a bigger chip camcorder. A super clean image should also upscale nicely to 4k.
 
Barry_Green said:
And you say this, having never seen a single frame from it? That seems a tad premature, don't you think?

Yes the sensors are smaller. They're also brand new technology and incorporate backside illumination, so they should provide a substantial increase in image quality over the prior larger sensors. Should. We will see what they actually do once some footage gets released.
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Yes, I'm speculating (like everyone else in this thread is). My speculation is based on the general relation between sensor size and image quality. All other things being equal, larger sensors have the potential to capture more light and produce better images. Granted there are exceptions and its easy to degrade overall image quality by pairing a good sensor with bad lenses or inferior processing (including line skipping, compression etc). But decreasing sensor size isn't a proven way to increase image quality.... maybe they can make up for it with a better lens, better sensor technology, and a better codec or maybe not.

How many of us believe the AC90 will have materially better image quality than the TM700 from 2010?
 
But you're not comparing like for like. You're comparing image quality from 2009-era (when the HMC40 and TM700 came out) against 2012.

I, for one, absolutely expect substantially better image quality out of the 2012-era AC90.
 
Barry_Green said:
I, for one, absolutely expect substantially better image quality out of the 2012-era AC90.
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Except a lot of cameras this year or last coming out are re-using older chips. PMW-200 re-using EX1 chips from 2007. FS700 re-using FS100 chips. HPX250 / AC160 / AC130 re-using HPX370 chips (where did it ever get resolved that HPX370 has the same chips as HPX300)? Though for a lot of these you could just say, if it ain't broke...
 
It may not be so much the chips that are newer but rather the fact is that the Panasonic Z10000 has the Crystal Engine Pro 2 for 4k2k processing
 
I am hoping this will be an ideal camera for indoor sports action. Low-light performance and image quality would be issues. Otherwise, this I'm hoping for this to be the TM900 with pro-feature upgrade.
 
zijital said:
If the 1/4.7" chips can perform better than the 1/4.1" chips, then this point is moot & shouldn't be of concern to anyone.
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As far as I was told by Panansonic's "Marketing Manager Camcorder & DSC" in Hamburg, they changed a bit their policy of sensor size description. For AC90 he told me an overall sensor size of 1/2.3" and an effective size of 1/4.7" for video recording. And he wrote, those values can't be compared directly with other products (Z10000, X900, ...).

The lens of AG-AC90 offers a focal length range from 2.84mm to 34.1mm - exactly the same values you'll find with Z10000 or X900. 35mm equivalent is 29.8 to ...

I combined that with some other technical values and at the end of the day I'll concluded: all three (AG-AC90, X900 and Z10000) must house sensors of app. the same size, formerly known as 1/4.1"-type. But only AG-AC90 got bsi chips :-)
 
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