New Owner, a few questions.

B

Brad12d3

Member
Just got a Sony FS700R and really liking it so far. I already had an Atomos Shogun, so I have been using that to record ProRes HQ from the RAW output the camera puts out. Really great results.

So I have read that the odyssey 7q is the best value for the money when it comes to recorders. I can use it to record proper RAW even 4K and 2K super slow motion burst, correct?

Is there any other new recorders that would be worth considering, or the odyssey 7q still the got to recorder?

As for now, I do have one question about recording into my Shogun. So I can't record super slow motion burst while in RAW mode, because I don't have the appropriate recorder and firmware. However, I can record Slow motion burst onto an SD card and onto a SSD via my Shogun in 1080. Although I am recording ProRes HQ on my shogun, am I getting a better signal out of the camera through the SDI than what is going to the SD card? Is there a significant advantage to recording to the Shogun, if it's not set to RAW? What exactly is coming out of the SDI when the camera is set to HD mode? 8bit? 422? 420?

Any other tips or tricks, or gotchas about the camera?
 
Hey!

The Odyssey 7Q is the only recorder that support all modes and frame rates of the FS700 at the moment. The Shogun Inferno that is coming out in the fall (they say) will support 60p at least, and the rest is just speculation at this time as I understand it. Could be it will support all the frame rates as well, but that seems a big unknown at this point.

I'd say recording the 1080 out of the SDI to ProRes on the Shogun gives a fair bit of improvement! Nothing too dramatic but noticable. It's 8bit 422.
 
To clarify; I wouldn't buy a recorder for the 1080 ProRes (unless I had clients demanding it). But since you already have the Shogun it can be worth doing at times.

i sometimes record the 1080 to ProRes on the 7Q... Mostly to give a slight improvement but easier to match with the A7S when using Cinegammas and not SLog2...
 
The 4k raw slow mo is only 440 frames, or a 4 second burst at 4k btw, which Is half the 1080p buffer on the cam by itself. 2k is all 240 cont tho.

Its also important to note the CD O7q requires a license to film the raw from which is diff then the atamos. Without the license the odyssey still does some pro res tho.

A problem wOrth noting with the 700 is the pillow zoom lense correction on lenses such as the 18105G.

Also worth reading up on deflicker plug ins fit your nle as the flicker from slo mo will be something to keep an eye on.
 
440 frames played back at 24p is more than 18 seconds, which is actually a pretty decent amount of time for a slow motion shot. It is quite useful.
 
Thanks! This all helps a lot. I really appreciate it. One last question. Just so that I am clear, in order to get the Sony RAW upgrade for the Odyssey, I have to buy the bundle or rent it. There is no option to buy it separately, just in the bundle?
 
First time I ever arrived before mitch on an odyssey thread. Felt good (h). Truth be told the 4second 4k burst is great when coupled with the end trigger the fs700 has. If i came off sounding like the 4k was wasted I apologize, it's just worth noting its duration for solo shooting.

O7Q ftw
 
Thanks again! So this might be a dumb question, but I'll ask anyways. Once I have the RAW upgrade on the Odyssey, can I still opt to have the Odyssey convert the RAW signal to prores should I want to save some space? RAW is great, but sometimes it's not necessary. Is there an option in the Odyssey's menu to switch between RAW and ProRes?
 
Brad12d3 said:
Thanks again! So this might be a dumb question, but I'll ask anyways. Once I have the RAW upgrade on the Odyssey, can I still opt to have the Odyssey convert the RAW signal to prores should I want to save some space? RAW is great, but sometimes it's not necessary. Is there an option in the Odyssey's menu to switch between RAW and ProRes?
Click to expand...

Yes! Exactly that. You choose the recording mode, whether it's straight to RAW or as ProRes (in all 3 flavours, LT, 422 or HQ). Bear in mind that the 7Q+ will only retain 2 recording modes (4K, HD, RAW, HFR etc etc) in its memory at any one time, which means if you wanted to change to another recording mode, other than the 2 recently-used modes, you have to wait 5-10 minutes for it to load the new mode. When you are with a client this feels like ages! But apart from that, and another few small gripes, I have nothing but praise for it, it's a fantastic piece of kit!
 
Brad12d3 said:
Thanks again! So this might be a dumb question, but I'll ask anyways. Once I have the RAW upgrade on the Odyssey, can I still opt to have the Odyssey convert the RAW signal to prores should I want to save some space? RAW is great, but sometimes it's not necessary. Is there an option in the Odyssey's menu to switch between RAW and ProRes?
Click to expand...
Yes, you can! Another great function lets you turn the 4K raw signal and turn it into 2K/HD ProRes if you don't need 4K. That really saves space!
 
With an Odyssey7Q+ and the Odyssey RAW Bundle, here's what you can do with the FS700:

RAW to RAW
4K RAW -> 4K CinemaDNG 24p-60p
4K RAW Burst -> 4K CinemaDNG Burst 100p, 120p
2K RAW -> 2K CinemaDNG 24-240p

RAW to Apple ProRes
4K RAW -> 4K ProRes 24p-60p
4K RAW -> UHD ProRes 24p-60p (sides trimmed)
4K RAW -> 2K ProRes 24p-60p (SuperSampled)
4K RAW -> HD ProRes 24p-60p (SuperSampled & sides trimmed)

4K RAW Burst -> 4K ProRes Burst 100p, 120p
4K RAW Burst -> UHD ProRes Burst 100p, 120p (sides trimmed)
4K RAW Burst -> 2K ProRes Burst 100p, 120p (SuperSampled)
4K RAW Burst -> HD ProRes Burst 100p, 120p (Super-Sampled & sides trimmed)

2K RAW High Speed -> 2K ProRes 100p, 120p, 200p, 240p
2K RAW High Speed -> HD ProRes 100p, 120p, 200p, 240p (sides trimmed)

Odyssey7Q+ also has the Odyssey LUT System featuring preset LUTs for the FS700 and Exposure Compensation LUTs for the FS700. Custom LUTs can also be loaded.

When recording in Apple ProRes from the FS700, the Odyssey7Q+ can capture the video in S-Log2, REC709A, or REC709(800%). S-Log2 is the camera's Log format for capturing the entire dynamic range of the image for later correction in post, REC709A is for a normal "standard" color and contrast, and REC709(800%) is normal color and contrast with the top end of exposure range opened up several stops to capture highlights while maintaining the rest of the image as normal.
 
Mitch Gross said:
When recording in Apple ProRes from the FS700, the Odyssey7Q+ can capture the video in S-Log2, REC709A, or REC709(800%).
Click to expand...

Hi Mitch, I've always known about being able to shoot with either SLOG2 or REC709(800%) gammas when outputting RAW to the Odyssey, but I didn't realise you additionally included standard REC709A gamma as an option? My understanding you had always restricted it to just the 2 profiles. Is that a particular Picture Profile or any profile with the REC709A gamma selected?

Incidentally I've always wished you could select any/all of the available profiles when sending out RAW to the Odyssey, including the standard look (all picture profiles turned off) or even PP2 which is the 'STILL' picture profile - the reason being these two profiles have the most accurate colours for a burnt-in look in my opinion, great for studio work. I do understand it isn't that simple as you have to recreate the look in the Odyssey when it converts the RAW into to ProRes, but I still wish it all the same!
 
pythonman said:
Hi Mitch, I've always known about being able to shoot with either SLOG2 or REC709(800%) gammas when outputting RAW to the Odyssey, but I didn't realise you additionally included standard REC709A gamma as an option? My understanding you had always restricted it to just the 2 profiles. Is that a particular Picture Profile or any profile with the REC709A gamma selected?

Incidentally I've always wished you could select any/all of the available profiles when sending out RAW to the Odyssey, including the standard look (all picture profiles turned off) or even PP2 which is the 'STILL' picture profile - the reason being these two profiles have the most accurate colours for a burnt-in look in my opinion, great for studio work. I do understand it isn't that simple as you have to recreate the look in the Odyssey when it converts the RAW into to ProRes, but I still wish it all the same!
Click to expand...
I believe there was a time when we locked out the standard REC709A due to a fault in the signal, but I'm pretty sure it's in there now.

We need to limit the number of possible Picture Profiles because it eats up a surprisingly hearty amount of processing room. Having them all would mean getting rid of other stuff, and we like our stuff. The other looks are also non-standard and there is no documentation on them. So we would need to create them via guesswork, and the results could vary wildly by exposure, color, contrast, etc. It's a lot more work than you might think.
 
Mitch, let's see if I understand things correctly:

The FS700 feed a raw signal to the 7Q, that signal isn't really affected by whatever the FS700 is set to (SLog2, REC709A or REC709(800%)). Other than maybe telling the 7Q what way to convert the raw signal?
In theory, you could allow the signal to be recorded also as SLog3, for example? As you have to turn the raw signal into whatever it is ending up with when not recorded as raw CDMG?
 
Mitch Gross said:
With an Odyssey7Q+ and the Odyssey RAW Bundle, here's what you can do with the FS700:

RAW to RAW
4K RAW -> 4K CinemaDNG 24p-60p
4K RAW Burst -> 4K CinemaDNG Burst 100p, 120p
2K RAW -> 2K CinemaDNG 24-240p

RAW to Apple ProRes
4K RAW -> 4K ProRes 24p-60p
4K RAW -> UHD ProRes 24p-60p (sides trimmed)
4K RAW -> 2K ProRes 24p-60p (SuperSampled)
4K RAW -> HD ProRes 24p-60p (SuperSampled & sides trimmed)

4K RAW Burst -> 4K ProRes Burst 100p, 120p
4K RAW Burst -> UHD ProRes Burst 100p, 120p (sides trimmed)
4K RAW Burst -> 2K ProRes Burst 100p, 120p (SuperSampled)
4K RAW Burst -> HD ProRes Burst 100p, 120p (Super-Sampled & sides trimmed)

2K RAW High Speed -> 2K ProRes 100p, 120p, 200p, 240p
2K RAW High Speed -> HD ProRes 100p, 120p, 200p, 240p (sides trimmed)

Odyssey7Q+ also has the Odyssey LUT System featuring preset LUTs for the FS700 and Exposure Compensation LUTs for the FS700. Custom LUTs can also be loaded.

When recording in Apple ProRes from the FS700, the Odyssey7Q+ can capture the video in S-Log2, REC709A, or REC709(800%). S-Log2 is the camera's Log format for capturing the entire dynamic range of the image for later correction in post, REC709A is for a normal "standard" color and contrast, and REC709(800%) is normal color and contrast with the top end of exposure range opened up several stops to capture highlights while maintaining the rest of the image as normal.
Click to expand...

WOW! Most helpful. Thank you!
 
dmitrizigany said:
Mitch, let's see if I understand things correctly:

The FS700 feed a raw signal to the 7Q, that signal isn't really affected by whatever the FS700 is set to (SLog2, REC709A or REC709(800%)). Other than maybe telling the 7Q what way to convert the raw signal?
In theory, you could allow the signal to be recorded also as SLog3, for example? As you have to turn the raw signal into whatever it is ending up with when not recorded as raw CDMG?
Click to expand...
Not quite as simple as that. First off we generally like to match what the camera shows on it's monitor and outputs as video to a standard monitor. Since the FS700 doesn't have S-Log3 that wouldn't be possible here. Then there are other aspects baked into the signal that are not compatible with such a workflow. For instance you cannot select the gamut with the FS700. This would mean that while it could be possible to usr an S-Log3, applying any LUT designed for S-Log3 on another camera would likely result in some messed up and possibly illegal colors with the use of a standard LUT. So no, it doesn't really apply well here.
 
I noticed shooting last week when I record the screen goes much darker for the duration of the record - is there anyway to avoid this? I was shooting outside mid-day and it was bright, so I was using as a monitor as well and sometimes it was really difficult to see my subject, but on playback it looked great (Thankfully).

Very hard to pull focus when I can't see very well because of the darkness...
 
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