new NEX-EA50 and 18-200 power-zoom

Donald Ong said:
As far as i can work out, C100 has ND filters and a better sensor (same as c300). Which means it'll be sharper and perhaps alias less. But come on, who can really tell 800 lines and 1000lines apart once you edit/colour grade/process/downscale in the final video. So i would say if you already have alot of canon lenses, get the c100. If you don't, it just simply comes down to budget. No doubt the c100 will be a better camera, but is it worth the extra 3,000? that's your call.

for 3k, I could get a mattebox and some really nice 4x4 NDs and if the ea50 does have clean 4:2:2 out, maybe even a ninja and have a very equal camera with a much better form factor. You have to admit, the EA50's form factor is to die for and easily the best out of all the large chippers.
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If you do doc work, or shoot without controlled lighting then the C100 is really worth it. I have used C300s on some projects and was amazed at how much it's sensitivity and wide DR allowed colors to come through as a single shoot went from bright to extremely dim during a pan. Unlke anything else that I have seen, including the BMCC, it maintains a wide DR is all light and so that avoids the DR contraction that all other similarly priced cams do, a contraction that ruins the viewer experience.
 
philiplipetz said:
If you do doc work, or shoot without controlled lighting then the C100 is really worth it. I have used C300s on some projects and was amazed at how much it's sensitivity and wide DR allowed colors to come through as a single shoot went from bright to extremely dim during a pan. Unlke anything else that I have seen, including the BMCC, it maintains a wide DR is all light and so that avoids the DR contraction that all other similarly priced cams do, a contraction that ruins the viewer experience.
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I'm one of those who doesn't really care about strictly obeying the 180 shutter. I just adjust shutter to compensate. Don't get me wrong, i know when i can do this and when i have to stick with 1/50 (in artificial lighting), but in bright sunlight, i just boost some shutter. I'm not overly bothered by the high shutter look. Stillmotion shoots without filters too and regularly go past 1/250..their shots still look great :)

But that's just me (And stillmotion :) ). I'm sure there are many others who worship the 180 rule like a god :P hehe
 
Donald Ong said:
Well, the price has dropped from US4500 to US4200...and that's before the official release. It may stagnate here (As in the case of the 5D3) or it may drop further when the camera starts shipping (as in the case of the C300). We can probably expect a final price of between 3500-4200 US. I hope it falls to 3k+ though...at 4000+, the 5D3 is really enticing as it also takes great stills...if it can fall into the 3000+ range, I would take it over the 5D3 without hesitation.
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Yes it seems like the price is falling rapidly. Now it's sitting at 3,599 on B&H with an Oct 15th, shipping date.

I was considering the D800 as an upgrade to my D90 but there's nothing that can deliver XLR audio, 1080p, autofocus, power zoom, compact form factor, and a large sensor for this price. Looks really appealing.
 
knock out said:
Yes it seems like the price is falling rapidly. Now it's sitting at 3,599 on B&H with an Oct 15th, shipping date.

I was considering the D800 as an upgrade to my D90 but there's nothing that can deliver XLR audio, 1080p, autofocus, power zoom, compact form factor, and a large sensor for this price. Looks really appealing.
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Wow, yeah i just noticed. 3,599...that's a really good deal now! I agree, if the price remains at 3K+, I'll officially dismiss DSLRs as a possible competitor. haha :D
 
Don't forget that both the VG-30 and VG-900 are going to be announced by Sony in 10 days, on Sept 12.

According to Sony Alpha Rumors, the price of the new VG-30 without lens is confirmed at $1,800 in the USA, while the 24mp 35mm full frame VG-900's USA MSRP is now confirmed as being at $3,300

The price of the new Sony A99 DSLR will be $2,800 and the Sony XLR-K1M XLR audio input accessory module for it is another $800 at MSRP USA.

With all of these, as well as the new PMW-100 and PMW-200, Sony sure seems to be flooding the market right now with a lot of new options for folks to consider.
 
LanceOregon said:
Don't forget that both the VG-30 and VG-900 are going to be announced by Sony in 10 days, on Sept 12.

According to Sony Alpha Rumors, the price of the new VG-30 without lens is confirmed at $1,800 in the USA, while the 24mp 35mm full frame VG-900's USA MSRP is now confirmed as being at $3,300

The price of the new Sony A99 DSLR will be $2,800 and the Sony XLR-K1M XLR audio input accessory module for it is another $800 at MSRP USA.

With all of these, as well as the new PMW-100 and PMW-200, Sony sure seems to be flooding the market right now with a lot of new options for folks to consider.
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The VG title suggest that they will be consumer products without the bells and whistles of the NXcam range, which the ea50 sits comfortably in. Doubt the VG30 will be very good as Sony seems to be quite fond of crippling the VG range. We'll see what Sony does. And I'm not particularly keen on spending 3,300 on a consumer camera which will get replaced in a year (as with all consumer cams)...
 
I gave the vg-10 a go when it launched. Yes, the image was soft and riddled with aliasing and moire'. But the ergonomics is fantastic. Mount some small lenses on the VG series bodies and you can get REAL guerrilla shooting going. You just look like a tourist out in public.
Anyway, go Sony. Even if I don't care for any of these cameras, they are pushing the market!
 
dustylense said:
I gave the vg-10 a go when it launched. Yes, the image was soft and riddled with aliasing and moire'. But the ergonomics is fantastic. Mount some small lenses on the VG series bodies and you can get REAL guerrilla shooting going. You just look like a tourist out in public.
Anyway, go Sony. Even if I don't care for any of these cameras, they are pushing the market!
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well, it can't be softer than those DSLRs. :) haha
I've seen some NEX5n footage (which the ea50 is supposedly based on), and the sharpness was really quite decent...much better than the DSLRs. The 5n is actually better than the vg10, no? Or so I've heard...
 
I have to say, the more I look at this EA-50, the more I am digging the form factor and just overall what it offers for the price. That is if the picture quality, low light, etc. are worthy of this price range. I don't mind a little noise/film grain look in my images if it means getting the shot. I've noticed you can add a little film grain in post as well, to blend with the noise and add a bit of a more film-like touch to the image. So as long as this camera is usable in low light (though I'm not expecting it to be the low light king or anything), it could be a great option.

Of course, with so many new large sensor cameras being announced or released in the coming months, I think I'm going to wait until after October to decide on buying anything new.

Donald Ong said:
well, it can't be softer than those DSLRs. :) haha
I've seen some NEX5n footage (which the ea50 is supposedly based on), and the sharpness was really quite decent...much better than the DSLRs. The 5n is actually better than the vg10, no? Or so I've heard...
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From what I've heard, for the money ($600 for the NEX-5n vs. $1500-2200 for the VG line cams) the NEX-5n is just a better deal. The biggest thing lost being the nice video camera form factor of the VG-20. So unless one needs the video camera form factor, an NEX-5n or upcoming NEX-5r would be more bang for the buck against the VG-20. Of course, Sony might finally get it right with the VG-30. If the rumors of what the GH3 is going to possibly be are true, then Sony will need to have some nice features in the VG-30 and not cripple it like they've done with the 10 and the 20. That is if Sony wants to really compete in the same price bracket with Panasonic's GH3. It seems Sony is really swinging for the fences so far. Hopefully all their new cams will be worthy choices.
 
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Nektonic said:
From what I've heard, for the money ($600 for the NEX-5n vs. $1500-2200 for the VG line cams) the NEX-5n is just a better deal.
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People are looking at specs too much. The 5n is great, but it does shut itself off about 5 minutes into shooting. The image is reasonably sharp but the codec is not as good as the Canon mp4 variants. Great cam but very difficult to shoot something professionally with it.
 
maarek said:
People are looking at specs too much. The 5n is great, but it does shut itself off about 5 minutes into shooting. The image is reasonably sharp but the codec is not as good as the Canon mp4 variants. Great cam but very difficult to shoot something professionally with it.
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No, Sony's AVCHD codec is FAR FAR superior to canon's horrible H.264 implementation. Though the Sony has 24mbs and the canon DSLRs 44, The Sony codec is far more efficient and hold up much better in grading. (assuming you are talking about the first gen canon DSLRs and not the 5dmk3 ALL-i, in which case, that would be better). But, the 5n world's apart from the DSLRs when it comes to sharpness.

Nektonic said:
I have to say, the more I look at this EA-50, the more I am digging the form factor and just overall what it offers for the price. That is if the picture quality, low light, etc. are worthy of this price range. I don't mind a little noise/film grain look in my images if it means getting the shot. I've noticed you can add a little film grain in post as well, to blend with the noise and add a bit of a more film-like touch to the image. So as long as this camera is usable in low light (though I'm not expecting it to be the low light king or anything), it could be a great option.

Of course, with so many new large sensor cameras being announced or released in the coming months, I think I'm going to wait until after October to decide on buying anything new.

From what I've heard, for the money ($600 for the NEX-5n vs. $1500-2200 for the VG line cams) the NEX-5n is just a better deal. The biggest thing lost being the nice video camera form factor of the VG-20. So unless one needs the video camera form factor, an NEX-5n or upcoming NEX-5r would be more bang for the buck against the VG-20. Of course, Sony might finally get it right with the VG-30. If the rumors of what the GH3 is going to possibly be are true, then Sony will need to have some nice features in the VG-30 and not cripple it like they've done with the 10 and the 20. That is if Sony wants to really compete in the same price bracket with Panasonic's GH3. It seems Sony is really swinging for the fences so far. Hopefully all their new cams will be worthy choices.
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I'm not putting my hopes up for the vg30. The GH3 will likely obliterate it at the small camera/small price category. I am interested to see where sony goes with the Vg9000, but again, not expecting it to be stellar as it is a 24MP sensor and as its part of the VG range, its likely some consumery toy that will be highly crippled to protect the EA50/fs100/fs700...
 
Donald Ong said:
No, Sony's AVCHD codec is FAR FAR superior to canon's horrible H.264 implementation. Though the Sony has 24mbs and the canon DSLRs 44, The Sony codec is far more efficient and hold up much better in grading. (assuming you are talking about the first gen canon DSLRs and not the 5dmk3 ALL-i, in which case, that would be better). But, the 5n world's apart from the DSLRs when it comes to sharpness.
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Aren't Sony's, Canon's, and Panasonic's pro/prosumer camera AVCHD implementations all better than whatever the heck is the codec in the Canon DSLRs? Or at least better in terms of not crushing blacks, less chunky noise at higher gain/ISO? Not to say that Canon DSLRs aren't good tools at times. I've gotten good results with mine, but at times the codec can really cause challenges, mostly in low light at higher ISO settings.

I'm not putting my hopes up for the vg30. The GH3 will likely obliterate it at the small camera/small price category. I am interested to see where sony goes with the Vg9000, but again, not expecting it to be stellar as it is a 24MP sensor and as its part of the VG range, its likely some consumery toy that will be highly crippled to protect the EA50/fs100/fs700...
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The VG9000 will certainly be an interesting camera for some, but probably not for me. As much as I love the better low light ability that full frame brings, I'm not looking to jump into full frame for video, as it is hard enough focusing with just m43/APS-C/S35 sensor cameras compared to 1/3 or 1/2 chip ones. I've gotten better at it with practice, and rumors of the GH3 having peaking are nice to hear and will hopefully pan out. The EA-50 specs say it has peaking as well (also red, yellow, white focus assist functions). Even with peaking and focus assist, I'd guess focusing on full frame is going to still be more challenging for video. And that is if the VG9000 has peaking or some focus assist options at all.
 
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Donald Ong said:
No, Sony's AVCHD codec is FAR FAR superior to canon's horrible H.264 implementation. Though the Sony has 24mbs and the canon DSLRs 44, The Sony codec is far more efficient and hold up much better in grading. (assuming you are talking about the first gen canon DSLRs and not the 5dmk3 ALL-i, in which case, that would be better). But, the 5n world's apart from the DSLRs when it comes to sharpness.
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Completely wrong. I have the 7d, Sony nex5n and 5d mark III. The Sony nex 5n is the last of these I'd shoot with.

The only thing it does better is that it has less moire than the 7d. And a bit more sharpness. That's it. It definitely DOES NOT have a better codec than either the 7d or the 5dmkIII. I can grade the 7d very well but the 5n has a bunch of macroblocking even in slight to moderate movement. It's shadows also turn to mush very easily. 7d can handle actual movement so much better.

World's apart is just so funny as it is not world's apart from anything. I've shot with all of these three cameras and the D800 and the 5n is the last of them I'd use. Except for b-roll. For b-roll it is excellent as the stereo mic is surprisingly robust + autofocus. Also the fact that it turns itself off in 5 minutes of shooting is not exactly endorsing. 1080p50 is quite good except it doubles the aliasing for the 5n. 25p on the 5n also has the worst rolling shutter of all of these. It's a no win situation.

Pecking order: 5dmarkIII > D800 > 7d > Sony nex 5n
 
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maarek said:
Completely wrong. I have the 7d, Sony nex5n and 5d mark III. The Sony nex 5n is the last of these I'd shoot with.

The only thing it does better is that it has less moire than the 7d. And a bit more sharpness. That's it. It definitely DOES NOT have a better codec than either the 7d or the 5dmkIII. I can grade the 7d very well but the 5n has a bunch of macroblocking even in slight to moderate movement. It's shadows also turn to mush very easily. 7d can handle actual movement so much better.

World's apart is just so funny as it is not world's apart from anything. I've shot with all of these three cameras and the D800 and the 5n is the last of them I'd use. Except for b-roll. For b-roll it is excellent as the stereo mic is surprisingly robust + autofocus. Also the fact that it turns itself off in 5 minutes of shooting is not exactly endorsing. 1080p50 is quite good except it doubles the aliasing for the 5n. 25p on the 5n also has the worst rolling shutter of all of these. It's a no win situation.

Pecking order: 5dmarkIII > D800 > 7d > Sony nex 5n
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Am I? Many have agreed that canon's H.264 is one horrendous excuse for a codec and that Sony's/panny's AVCHD implementations are far superior. I don't see as much blocky noise in the 5N and vg20 footage compared to the 5dmk2/7d etc.

morgan_moore said:
My 5d is history, keepin it as a stills cam :)

http://www.sammorganmoore.com/backlot/nex-5n-vs-5dmk2
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Haha, the 5N really doesn't look too shabby compared to the fs100..that is quite impressive...
 
Donald Ong said:
Just for the record, Sony has confirmed the EA50 will have clean, uncompressed 8bit 4:2:2 via full sized HDMI
http://vimeo.com/49127539

This is great news!
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Interesting. Hmmm...will have to see how it handles focus etc. with the power zoom lens but its interesting to add 4:2:2 to that spec sheet. Its kind of an ugly camera to me but that's no matter I'm still keeping an eye on this and the VG900 (and even the PMW200) to see how they all perform. 3 totally different cameras but still I'm curious.

I think I mentioned it before in another post but I wonder if the VG900's full frame sensor when its in "automatic APS-C mode" when using the lenses like the 18-200 power zoom lens...will look as slightly worse, the same, or better than the EA50's native APS-C footage.

I guess for what I do (Weddings) there's not much advantage to the VG900 over this since I personally don't always need super crazy shallow DoF and an APS-C sensor should bring me much more DoF and better low light performance than my current 1/3" sensors (HMC150) anyway. I just feel like certain things were left out of the EA50 that get so much fuss on this camera (namely the onboard ND since it's marketed to ENG/Event shooters) and that Sony will release a "we listened to you" follow up camera the EA100. It will have the ND filter, and maybe even that suped up EVF that the VG900/VG30's have and please oh please - an HDSDI out. That then, will be the camera I was really hoping to see. Either way, its exciting times and since I'm looking to buy in 6-8 months anyway, the whole world can change by then.
 
The Irish TRex said:
Interesting. Hmmm...will have to see how it handles focus etc. with the power zoom lens but its interesting to add 4:2:2 to that spec sheet. Its kind of an ugly camera to me but that's no matter I'm still keeping an eye on this and the VG900 (and even the PMW200) to see how they all perform. 3 totally different cameras but still I'm curious.

I think I mentioned it before in another post but I wonder if the VG900's full frame sensor when its in "automatic APS-C mode" when using the lenses like the 18-200 power zoom lens...will look as slightly worse, the same, or better than the EA50's native APS-C footage.

I guess for what I do (Weddings) there's not much advantage to the VG900 over this since I personally don't always need super crazy shallow DoF and an APS-C sensor should bring me much more DoF and better low light performance than my current 1/3" sensors (HMC150) anyway. I just feel like certain things were left out of the EA50 that get so much fuss on this camera (namely the onboard ND since it's marketed to ENG/Event shooters) and that Sony will release a "we listened to you" follow up camera the EA100. It will have the ND filter, and maybe even that suped up EVF that the VG900/VG30's have and please oh please - an HDSDI out. That then, will be the camera I was really hoping to see. Either way, its exciting times and since I'm looking to buy in 6-8 months anyway, the whole world can change by then.
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As long as its equal or better than the vg900 in low light, I'll take the EA50 over it any day. I doubt the vg900's OLED viewfinder will be far superior to the EA50's, though. They should be both quite good. Also, the EA100 will likely be a far more expensive, souped up version that won't really be in the same bracket, as with the fs700...It'll be more of an upgrade rather than a replacement.

But i have to agree, the EA50 is a rather....well, special looking camera...but hey, if it works, who cares :D But in all honesty, none of the large chip video cams now look particularly handsome (except perhaps, the f3). And the EA50 suffers the same problem as the AF100, put a nice, large lens on and it looks great, put a small prime on and it looks simply ridiculous... haha :D
 
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