HPX250: New HPX250 Scene Files & a question for Barry

Neil Richards

Neil Richards

Active member
Hi All,

I just noticed that Panasonic posted a whole load of new scene files for their cameras (about 5 days ago, sorry if I'm a bit slow on the uptake, i just saw this on Creative Cow) and there's a new set of 18 for the HPX250 here:

http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/scene-files-new.asp?model=HPX250

I've downloaded them and am about to have a play, from the website there's a few there that look useful to me so hope this is helpful to anyone else who hasn't seen these yet.

But I have a question for Barry, and it's not really an HPX250 question but don't know where else to post it: I shoot 3D with a 3DA1 but there are no scene files for this camera apart form the ones built in. However I thought that it was basically similar to an HPX170 or 171 and wondered if the HPX170 scene files here would work for it? Or if not, would any of the other cameras be similar?

Cheers

Neil
 
Never used a 3DA1 so I can't specifically answer, but from what I understand it has a very similar menu structure to the other Panasonics. However, with every different chip set, there is a difference in the images, and especially with the HPX170 there was a change in some of the ranges of the menu settings (i.e., master pedestal goes -100 to +100 on the HPX170, whereas on most of the other Panasonics it goes -15 to +15). So no, you can't just type in the same numbers and expect them to match perfectly.

I actually developed the new scene files on Panasonic's site, and I spent forever with all the cameras and a waveform monitor and vectorscope and production monitors and charts, tweaking and balancing and adjusting here and there to try and get the new scene files to match across different cameras. In some cases I was quite successful (especially between the AC160, AC130 and AF100, and between the HPX250 and the HPX370), and in some cases, it just cannot be done (like the Super8 scene file between the 130/160/100 and the 250/370; they just do not look the same and can't be the same, because the DRS function is very very different between the 250/370 and the way it works on the 130/160/100).

So, short answer -- try it and see what you come up with, but I wouldn't be overly optimistic that they will match right off the bat, expect to spend some time A/B'ing with a monitor to get them closer.
 
I never realised it was you Barry who designed the new files. Thank you especially for the Hollywood & DSLR scene files, I love using them on my 370 now :)
 
Thanks Barry - you know, I thought you'd probably had a hand in all those files :) so thanks for all your patient time and effort on that.

Funny, I was just thinking at the weekend that I needed to sit down and put a "flat" scene file together that gave me most options for grading in post and, guess what?, there's one in your set for the 250.

For the 3DA1 it sounds like I'll just have to load them up and have a play but these gives me a great starting point.

Cheers

Neil
 
There's a particular scene file of interest - clean. How is this derived from? For every day fast turn around news shoot, baked-in cam processing, I use HD NORM w/ HD or Cine Gamma.
 
I would guess (having never used one) that the 3DA1's scene files would probably bear the most resemblance to the AC160's, but it really depends on the functioning of how the DRS setting works and what the range of the master pedestal is. If the 3DA1 uses -100 to +100 on the master pedestal, then definitely try the HPX250's scene file settings, as they'll probably be closer. But if it's a range of -15 to +15, try the AC160's. But again, that's just a stab in the dark, I don't really know because I haven't used that camera.
 
lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com said:
There's a particular scene file of interest - clean. How is this derived from? For every day fast turn around news shoot, baked-in cam processing, I use HD NORM w/ HD or Cine Gamma.
Click to expand...
"clean" was designed to provide a minimal reasonable baseline image without going quite so far as "flat". Clean is mild detail, mild color, wide range. "Flat" takes that to the extreme.

For fast turn around news shooting, I wouldn't go with either of them, because the pictures lack oomph (to my eye). I prefer some color saturation and some contrast in my images, and both clean and flat are designed to be as neutral and un-oomphish as possible, for flexibility in the grading process.
 
The 3DA1 goes from -15 to +15 and it's a standard Panasonic pro menu structure so I'll try out the AC160 settings and see what gives.

Thanks Barry
 
In other words, CLEAN is an intermediate flat setting that's below HPX250's factory scene file - CineD which is the flattest possible on the HPX-250.

It appears that there is the DSC Chroma Du Monde 28 chart is used for these new scene files. Was there any special skintone mod beyond the factory defaults? I noticed that recent Panasonic cam tends to be a bit biased toward Asian skintones on factory default settings. I usually change to the DSC DuMonde 28 scene file just on non-Asian skin tone to more accurate rendition. But I still like the default look for scenics and non- people type of shot.
 
I used a 12-color DSC and a 28-color VFX chart for the matching. The 28-color has 4 skintone patches on it. I also used the CamBelles, which has four skintone models (Indian, fair Caucasian, African, and Asian).

The colors were designed basically for a "look" first and foremost, and then matched to all the other cameras. On "clean" and "flat", they were left as-is, no color bias was attempted. I've found that in general, especially on HD NORM gamma and NORM1 matrix, that the Panasonics have really excellent colorimetry. However, on "clean" and "flat", I think I used NORM2 matrix, which definitely varies in the purples, because it's a lower-noise matrix. You may prefer changing the scene file to use NORM1.
 
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