New fixtures: SoftPanels

Me and my buddy are going to do a little review video on the LiteMat 2Ls soon. I'll share it here when it's live. They're really incredible lights.

I bought them after my Divas were stolen and they are so much more beautiful and versatile. I always felt the Divas were strictly interview, ENG, reality-lights. Durable as hell and reliable but the light quality from these LiteMats is much more conducive to using on a feature or short film.

Btw, the SoftPanels video of an actual working unit finally went live. I have to say, the lights look well-constructed and I'm eager to test them out.

Link to SoftPanels video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJyQPFJaE14&feature=youtu.be
 
traviswears said:
I bought two of the LiteGeat LiteMat 2Ls recently (second gen) and they are just fantastic. Beautiful, soft light. Dimmable down to 1%. They have several feature modes (firelight, flash, etc...) are extremely lightweight and can run off a brick. Also, their customer service was flat out excellent. Super responsive and friendly, helped me out a ton. I don't see what the SoftPanels can really offer that will compete with them, outside of the auto-color mode, which only does so much w/out any RGB LEDs.
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When there's an array of LEDs inside a permanent softbox like the Softpanels (or similar)... it seems like they could put in a small number of magenta and green LEDs, and just have those on their own dimmer, apart from the rest, then save the expense (and loss of brightness) of full RGB.

I'm glad this Softpanels thing is coming to a conclusion. Seeing the 1x2 in action gives me the impression that the 2x3 is the ideal compromise of size and power. The point about the external ballast and the cabling between everything is evident... it looks like decent quality, but also stuff to wrangle.

I expect these to blow the Astra Soft out of the water on power though. The Dracast 1000B light (which still irks me that it's clearly NOT 1000 LEDs, and the name is an intentional deception)... but still... it's somewhere around 1/3 as bright as the Astra Soft, which is a big deal, considering it's small size. The Softpanel should be about TWICE as bright... at the same wattage. If that's the case, it would be akin to an 800w Diva (if there were such a thing).

If it does anything close to that... I'll be very happy with it.

BTW... I got the impression that some 2x3 are about to ship... like soon-soon... maybe even at the same time as the 1x2s.
 
MattinSTL said:
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I expect these to blow the Astra Soft out of the water on power though. The Dracast 1000B light (which still irks me that it's clearly NOT 1000 LEDs, and the name is an intentional deception)... but still... it's somewhere around 1/3 as bright as the Astra Soft, which is a big deal, considering it's small size. The Softpanel should be about TWICE as bright... at the same wattage. If that's the case, it would be akin to an 800w Diva (if there were such a thing).

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I have four bi-color, full power Astra's and they are just so hard to beat on power. I looked at Dracast, Kino Celeb's & LED Diva's and LiteRibbon LiteMats when I decided to add some more LED's at the end of November and none of them could beat the Astra's(I think the largest LiteMat that is several times larger may have matched it in power). So I added two more and pulled my Diva's out of service(Astra's beat my Diva 400's that they replaced, too).
 
The Astra Soft and the standard (full-power) Astra are completely different lights. With the Soft... well... it's even softer than an Astra w/ softbox. There's almost no discernible LEDs behind the frost... which is impressive considering it's small size. If you know you want a soft source... and it's on-sale, it's significantly cheaper to get an Astra Soft instead of an Astra + softbox.

If you were comparing soft to soft, I get it... but if you were comparing to a standard Astra... that's different (of course)... The Astras are impressive though... which is why they've quickly become THE light for almost all news and ENG out in the field. I was hoping the SP would compete... hopefully they will.
 
Astra soft probably has similar power to the litemat S4 but litemat is definitely softer - just on the basis of its size. Nonetheless, two great lights.
 
I, too am one of those who bit on the 2x3 soft panel...which brought me to this site in my search for answers to any updates or communication others may have received regarding the status of their orders!
All of my emails have gone unanswered, since my oreder,which is unacceptable.
I hope to glean some satisfaction from anyone who can shed some light on this kickstarter campaign!
Best,
Dennis
 
Dennis, there's not much to report. Some backers have received their lights. Most of us have not. More information about when the lights will be shipped has not been delivered. Those who did receive lights had some units arrived scratched with the cases already in poor shape. Many have also received additional bills from customs or FEDEX for shipping charges, even in the US!

On Nov 20th, they promised refunds to all who did not receive their units by Feb 15th. Then, when that date came and went, they refused to answer any specific questions on refunds, saying that they needed several more weeks to sort that out. Even though they'd just had 3 MONTHS to figure that process out.

I'm going to sell my unit as soon as it arrives. I want nothing to do with this company moving forward and this is the last time I'll back a crowdfunded project for video equipment.
 
Wow, major cautionary tale guys. Sorry for those of you who got taken advantage of by this company. I too will never buy a Kickstarter product, I was tracking the VR Sphericam for the past year, thank goodness I never gave them money. A lot of vaporware out there on Kickstarter and the like.
 
traviswears said:
I'm going to sell my unit as soon as it arrives. I want nothing to do with this company moving forward and this is the last time I'll back a crowdfunded project for video equipment.
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I certainly hope they turn this thing around... while I got cold feet and opted out, I was hoping to purchase a 2x3 unit down the road, since it would be quite useful... but it doesn't sound too promising at this point.
I did back the Hive crowdfunded 100-C project... and felt a little more secure knowing they were an existing company that had delivered innovative products to market. But yeah... I understand your frustration.
 
traviswears said:
Dennis, there's not much to report. Some backers have received their lights. Most of us have not. More information about when the lights will be shipped has not been delivered. Those who did receive lights had some units arrived scratched with the cases already in poor shape. Many have also received additional bills from customs or FEDEX for shipping charges, even in the US!

On Nov 20th, they promised refunds to all who did not receive their units by Feb 15th. Then, when that date came and went, they refused to answer any specific questions on refunds, saying that they needed several more weeks to sort that out. Even though they'd just had 3 MONTHS to figure that process out.

I'm going to sell my unit as soon as it arrives. I want nothing to do with this company moving forward and this is the last time I'll back a crowdfunded project for video equipment.
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The strangest thing about the campaign has been the total lack of communication... it's like trying to get an answer out of a person in a catatonic state... then suddenly they sit up for a second... acknowledge a question or two (out of many)... then collapse back on the bed again. There's been a complete lack of common sense... nobody would accept this level of communication in their real lives, and the reason several backers are upset is because they're at the mercy of the campaign. In ANY OTHER "business transaction"... even eBay... there are time-limits and systems in place for recourse.

What does communication cost? A few minutes of your time? It's not rocket science... You can't be creating the next generation of LED lighting, yet typing a sentence as simple as this one here is too much to handle... and okay, so let's say it is... then you hire Julie... and then apparently Julie can't handle it... then you bring on Mitch, and pretty soon you realize that of course it's not hard to type a simple sentence... but silence is the safest route, because the less you promise... the less to which you can be held accountable.

The one thing I understand, is Travis' feeling about it. You can only be jerked around so many times before you just have to walk away.

This light will have to be very impressive to justify everything leading up to it's delivery... and so far, of those who have received one... nobody is putting any campaign claims to a scientific test.
 
MattinSTL said:
What does communication cost? A few minutes of your time? It's not rocket science... You can't be creating the next generation of LED lighting, yet typing a sentence as simple as this one here is too much to handle... and okay, so let's say it is... then you hire Julie... and then apparently Julie can't handle it... then you bring on Mitch, and pretty soon you realize that of course it's not hard to type a simple sentence... but silence is the safest route, because the less you promise... the less to which you can be held accountable.
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Is it just a coincidence that Mitch, who has always been very active, helpful and informative on all types of subjects, has pretty much disappeared on here?
 
Run&Gun said:
Is it just a coincidence that Mitch, who has always been very active, helpful and informative on all types of subjects, has pretty much disappeared on here?
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I sent Mitch a PM a while back... when I worried if anyone would EVER get a light... and he never replied, but not too long after that he began posting some good news on the SP campaign. As others have alluded to... I suspect that Mitch found himself in an awkward position with SP. I can't blame him for that... but once again, people who ordered an AB mount light shouldn't be forced to ask for an update. Throughout the campaign (AFTER it was funded) communication has been reactionary instead of proactive.

You can see why guys like Travis have a bad taste about all of it. I feel the same way, but I do think it's possible the light will be "so good" that nothing else matters once I get it... but I'd also like to see ANYTHING even remotely scientific to verify some campaign specs. So far the only comparison I've read is a response from Ted (on KS)... saying that the SP appears about 1/2 stop brighter than an Astra w/ snapbag. The thing is though... guesstimating output by eye is a lot harder than it sounds. There's got to be a meter involved.

EDIT to update...

Shawn... one of the backers who's received a light... measured his at 5600k... full... 4'... @ 1800 lux w/ a Sekonic 758 meter (dome retracted in).

I just put an Astra Soft in the garage... used a Bosch laser meter to get at least 4'... and on 5600k... full... 4'... @ 1700 lux w/ a Sekonic 478dr (dome retracted in). Maybe I should have that one pic with the meter showing the 1700, but this is what it looks like. The overheads are off for the reading... and once I finally get an SP don't worry... there will be a full video showing what's what... and comparing to an Astra Soft. They may want to get the SP to me soon, because if B&H repeats the NAB sale from last year (at this point) I'd probably try to refund my SP instead of accepting it. LitePanels was WAY conservative on the Astra Soft output... they'd do themselves a big favor to update the "preliminary specs"...

1800lx vs. 1700lx... in a small, lightweight package? That's too close for comfort. The early SP campaign specs suggested output on par with the 1x2s they were comparing to on price... it's got to put out TWICE the Astra Soft to be in that league.

FYI... I will repeat this "test" on the deck... fully after dark, with no possible reflections, etc. and add an "EDIT update"... to this. I realize that testing light output with possible reflections isn't the most scientific method. (Shawn may or may not have addressed this, but I will encourage an outdoor, dark test.)

EDIT... update... 8:50pm Central. Trying this in the dark backyard, with no other lights... made zero difference. I guess a light meter with the dome recessed pretty much insures that you'll only get incidental light and no reflective... *shrug*... Astra Soft at 4' and 5600k... 1700 lux... so... very close to the Softpanel. Not a good comparison for SP at 2x the size and weight. And at the LitePanels spec distance of 5' and 955lx, I got 1000lx exactly. Oh... also worth noting, is the Astra line is at the very top of the TLCI scale... 97 on Daylight and 99 on Tungsten... only Arri Fresnels and the Sun are scoring higher. 95 CRI and nearly equal output at 2x the size and 2x the weight ain't good... a simple super lightweight Arri stand holds an Astra with ease... the SP requires something beefy... like an American Grip LS04 ($200 each... and heavy)... so... what's the point if it isn't more... or better... light?
bosch.jpgsetup.JPG478.jpg
 
Astra Soft is 110 watt power draw. Softpanel 1x2 is a 100 watt power draw. So, based on power draw, the 1x2 Softpanel should actually be less bright than the Astra. The advantage of the Softpanel 1x2 is a larger surface are which means a softer light, which is good or bad depending on if you prefer a larger light that is softer but takes up more space or a smaller light that is harsher and takes up less space.

A Kino four bank for example is similar brightness to a Litepanel Astra but takes up a lot more space while providing more wrap around and softer light. Larger size doesn't necessarily equate to more brightness.

Most 1x2 panels are actually around 100-120 watt power draw, such as Aladdin, Wescott, Dracast, and Kino Celeb 201 (which is considerably more money), for example, so if they said it was similar brightness to other 1x2s in that price range then I'd suspect they are still correct. Some of the higher priced 1x2s such as the Cineo HSX and Arri Skypanel are 400-450 watt power draw and also considerably heavier.
 
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I wonder why Softpanels chose the seemingly arbitrary distance of .8 meters? 2' 7.5"(?) They should have corrected their photometrics info sooner... I'm sure I'm not the only one who hoped on 4' when it's published spec says, 2900lx @ 4' [.8m]... hoping .8m was the typo... not 4'. Every other LED manufacturer uses multiples of 3, 4, or 5'... or else multiples of .5m... so what is 2' 7.5"(?) Also... in the campaign as well as early comments, there were comparisons to the SkyPanel.

I've been following LED tech for quite a long time... over 10 years now, and there are better LEDs out there, than you'll see in any product today. I thought with Kevin's connections through LitePanels and his personal visits to China... that maybe he made a deal for some next gen diodes. Lumens per watt is steadily evolving... I guess I was hoping for a "discount lunch" (since there's no free lunch)... based on the hype of the campaign.

I get the larger source point... I see standard Astras (not "Soft") bounced off white cards or a wall/ceiling often. You can turn the Astra, or Astra Soft into a 4' x 4' with a white card. My initial impression with the SP was that it would put more total lumens into a room.
 
Plus I can drive to a local dealer and have an Astra in my lighting kit within an hour. The Softpanels? Months, years?
 
People have begun receiving their orders, those who opted for a v-mount anyway... but one of the guys said he thought it was about 1/2 stop brighter than an Astra w/ snapbag. I was a little bummed to hear that... meanwhile, no... definitely not even close to a half-stop. Barely brighter (overall) is the answer.

We had a conversation back and forth (months ago) in the comments section of the KS campaign... and I "corrected" (incorrectly) another person saying they thought these should be brighter... I said based on the quoted specs (AT 4 FEET) that the SP should be roughly TWICE as bright as an Astra Soft... which would make it a bargain. Nobody corrected me on that at the time... but should have. Only recently, Shawn... one of the backers who's received a light... put a meter on his unit.

A couple people have received units with issues... such as broken in transit... and another had one fail. The current hypothesis is that an incompatible battery caused the problem. The odd thing on that, is a revised, more universal battery board, was the first reason given for the initial delay.

When mine arrives... I'll do some A/B and see the quality differences... and see if anyone can tell the Astra Soft from the SP... Alternatively... unless I knew I could sell these (at least one) for a zero-loss (after waiting a year)... I'd strongly consider just taking a refund and washing my hands of it. If I could go back in time I'd grab a 2nd AS w/ BT module on sale from B&H... and forget about these. Unless they arrive and project some major mojo on the subject (which they might)... but so far I haven't read any backer reviews with any real excitement... it's been more of yeah, they work and were a good deal. Considering the potential risk involved... even now... I'd like to see some excitement about the product and performance. I would have expected the push-button color-matching to sort of blow people's minds... meanwhile it hasn't been talked about much(?)
 
MattinSTL said:
I've been following LED tech for quite a long time... over 10 years now, and there are better LEDs out there, than you'll see in any product today. I thought with Kevin's connections through LitePanels and his personal visits to China... that maybe he made a deal for some next gen diodes. Lumens per watt is steadily evolving... I guess I was hoping for a "discount lunch" (since there's no free lunch)... based on the hype of the campaign.
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I guess I just don't see where the assumption came from that they got some "next gen diodes" with higher lumens per watt efficiency. Connections with Litepanels? Like, Litepanels is going to throw these guys a bone, after they quit Litepanels, giving them the latest and greatest theoretical "next gen diodes" that aren't even in current Litepanel products? I believe I watched most of the Kickstarter video, and read through their page, and I guess I'm just not remembering any claims about higher lumen to watt efficiency than other LEDs.

To me the selling point of these lights was as follows:
1x2: A cheaper alternative to the Kino Celeb 201, good for people who prefer a 100w 2x1 with a larger surface area over a 1x1 with equal power and a smaller surface area
2x3: A cheaper and lower powered alternative to a Skypanel with a larger surface are for a softer source
3x4: Cheaper, higher power, and larger surface area compared to a Skypanel, and also cheaper than Cineo's Quantum light which is a 4x4 with a 1200 watt power draw

Then there were the gimicks. Color warming? Seriously? Super gimicky and useless as far as I can tell. The autocolor is basically a built in light meter which then sets light's color based on color readings; I could see it being useful to speed things up in some cases. Typically you could either use a meter or the camera's auto-white balance to determine ambient light color temp, as well as your eyes, and then set lights from there. With auto-color, you could set the light's color temp with the auto-color, but what if the auto-color came up as 4800k and the camera auto WB came up as 4200K? I'd have doubts of them always matching up, so I'd still lean toward manually setting the light's WB based on what the camera or your eyes came up with. So, a mildly useful feature in some circumstances, as I see it.


MattinSTL said:
Also... in the campaign as well as early comments, there were comparisons to the SkyPanel.
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SoftPanels wrote, "SoftPanels cost one-fifth the price of Skypanels, and producer a better quality of light!" Then I went on to read the "highlights" of Matt Hayslett reviewing the Softpanel compared to the Skypanel, of which he basically concluded the Softpanel had better color, but nowhere mentions it as being brighter or more lumen to watt efficient. The Skypanel has a TLCI of 90, which is a bit lower than some of the competition, but has RGB control which the other higher TLCI panel lights do not have. Also, I've heard with the Skypanel you can use the RGB control to get more accurate colors, such as dialing out green, for example. I don't recall if Matt's full review covered the Skypanel color quality when tinkering with the settings; it seems his review is not on his website anymore?
 
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I just checked in with Cineo's website and saw they have a new light coming, the Quantum C80. 800w power draw, 48 lbs (looks like no separate ballast), and RGB control (I think, or is it just hue and saturation adjustment control? What is the difference? Seemed a bit unclear to me). At 11 lbs heavier than a Skypanel S60-C (which is 37 lbs including the ballast), but about twice as bright (based on power draw), it looks like an interesting light. It's a 4' x 2', so larger than a Skypanel 2' x 1', but smaller than the Softpanel 4' x 3' (which is 45.5 lbs). No price tag yet; the 400w Cineo HSX is $3735, so I'd guess a bit less than double the price, maybe around $6,000. R9 value averages at 5600k for the Quantum C80 are 95.4 and for the Skypanel are 93.6.

http://www.cineolighting.com/qc80/
 
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