FS7: New firmware for the FS7 will allow you to bake in gain/offset in Cine EI

Supieror is such a flexible word.

Absolutely the image of the F55/raw is superior.

For the superiority equation (Range of lenses * cost * image quality * position of headphone jack * data cost per day) /(cost * mass * width including XLRs) the FS7 may win for many situations.. and even the goPro or iphone for others :)

There is only the right camera.
 
If you shoot in low light the FS7 has great advantages. Greater chip sensitivity and the ability to use speed booster. To me that trumps by over 1 1/2 stops, but horses for courses.
 
Doug Jensen said:
I am not upset in the least. I'm just calmly saying that your saying "we all know" does not apply to everyone. Not even close.
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...and yet you confirm my point by agreeing that the variable ND can be considered one of the ways the FS7 could be considered better? I've yet to find anyone who can't see at least one thing about the FS7 that fails to impress... even if it's just the cost. I don't understand why you feel the need to jump to the defence of the F55 - If you read my post again you'll see I didn't say the FS7 was a better camera? In fact, I find the whole "which is the best camera" argument futile. I agree that the F55 is a great camera, and it certainly changed the industry when it launched in 2012... but, when you consider all the advances Sony have made to various models since then, to say that the F55 is "vastly superior" in every way is just silly
 
PaulReam said:
In fact, I find the whole "which is the best camera" argument futile.
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The one in the middle is obviously the best :laugh:
 
Paul, you are entitled to your opinion. Just please don't imply that everyone else agrees with it. I have stated my opinion as well, and I stand by it, but I do not assume everyone would share the same viewpoint. But with that said, I know I am right. :-)
 
Happy that you're right Doug, just please don't imply that I was saying the FS7 was a better camera than the F55. Just because you don't understand my point, doesn't mean you should assume everyone else wouldn't understand it either :)

Now back on topic... I like the idea of having the option to trade sensitivity for noise levels when shooting Log, and was going to say I hope they do this for the F5/55 as well. But then... I see most noise in the shadows. If we reduce sensitivity, aren't we reducing our option of over exposing slightly to bring it down in post... especially in low light situations where I seem to see most noise? Or have I totally misunderstood what's being offered here?
 
PaulReam said:
If we reduce sensitivity, aren't we reducing our option of over exposing slightly to bring it down in post... especially in low light situations where I seem to see most noise? Or have I totally misunderstood what's being offered here?
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This is a good question... and hopefully will be answered... eventually. Doesn't seem to be much info on what this is exactly - or what will be offered here with this fw update
 
It is now posted on the US site at least for Mk II. For the Mk II, the version is v1.20

Will load later.

Product manager told me on Tuesday evening that it had been released but didn't seem to appear until today.
 
Please help me grasp the idea of this new option; am I right thinking that with the new setting ON (Rec/Out EI Applied), my FS7 will act more like my A7 series camera where I can not just "rate" the sensor sensitivity (like I did with Rec/Out EI Applied OFF, or on the pre-4.30 FS7), but actually "set" it the way I would with Gain (thus using it for exposure control) when shooting S-log (with the difference still being that the FS7 must be in Cine EI mode which isn't available on the Alpha)? Of course the actual sensor sensitivity still doesn't change, but I can now use my EI just like Gain in Custom mode... Or am I missing it completely?

Piotr
 
I would think of it in this way.

Sony considers native sensor to be ISO 2000 (there has always been some discussion here but let's just use Sony assumptions).

Many of us tend to shoot at an EI of 1000 or 800 and some even shoot at EI 500.

With middle gray of SLog3 at about 41%, that favors the highlights and can thus lead to noise in the shadows or darker areas of image.

Rating the camera -1 stop or -1 1/3 or -2 stops moves the 14 stops of DR into the shadow area, at the expense of the highlights. But with the advantage of lower apparent noise.

As I understand it, the option bakes in the over (or under, if you choose) exposure into the SLog3 image. Thus you need make no exposure adjustments in post. If you are editing and grading your own work and remember that you have shot at an EI other than native EI2000, you can remember to adjust exposure in post. If however, you are giving to an editor and/or colorist, there are ample spaces in the handoff process to fail to communicate the EI at which footage was shot. Makes it easier for them to deal with in post.

So, Piotr, I would say you got it and perhaps it could be expressed as "gain".

As of this writing, I haven't updated my camera. The very meager documentation says it does not affect RAW. My initial question is whether it affected SDI /HDMI output. I would now believe that it does, but need to verify that.

Ned
 
Yes but for clarification :
"With middle gray of SLog3 at about 41%, that favors the highlights and can thus lead to noise in the shadows or darker areas of image."
I'm, sure Ned meant that sentence refers to exposure at 2000EI not 1000 or 500.

Ned - I'm sure that the exposure would be carried over into SDI and HDMI, otherwise they would be crazy over at Sony - you need to be able to monitor this stuff.
 
nsoltz said:
With middle gray of SLog3 at about 41%, that favors the highlights and can thus lead to noise in the shadows or darker areas of image.
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The curve of the transfer function has nothing to do with noise, noise comes from the sensor.
What can happen is that there are not enough bits (for instance 8 bit Rec709 gamma or log, or 10 or 12 bit linear) to accurately represent the original after applying the transfer function but this has nothing to do with noise.
 
I have to say it's great that Sony add functions so many years after. June is almost over and out so I guess the FW is delayed.
 
I put the update to my FS7 this morning, though I don't think I'll ever use the new feature. Anyway, it's in the download section since early yesterday.
 
LennyLevy said:
Yes but for clarification :
"With middle gray of SLog3 at about 41%, that favors the highlights and can thus lead to noise in the shadows or darker areas of image."
I'm, sure Ned meant that sentence refers to exposure at 2000EI not 1000 or 500.

Ned - I'm sure that the exposure would be carried over into SDI and HDMI, otherwise they would be crazy over at Sony - you need to be able to monitor this stuff.
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That's correct. I'm feebly attempting to say that is assuming 2000 EI
 
A step further could be adding a third option to the "Rec/Out EI Applied" on/off toggle, namely "Auto" within a definable ISO range ... This could work fine with long, continuous takes in the bright sunshine, when the sun gets obscured by clouds on the random basis... Of course, anything "Auto" is always against the purist way of using a cinema camera the FS7 aspires to be in Cine EI mode, plus it would probably create real difficulties grading such footage - hence no Auto Iris available once you switch from Custom to Cine EI. Those with mk II FS7 cameras at least have some exposure automation in the form of Auto-ND filtering (or is this also unavailable in conjunction with Cine EI)?

Just an idea, of course - in practical usage, I'll probably never use the new option at all, anyway. Which makes the 4.30 firmware a waste for me; Sony should have been listening more closely to the FS7 user base and include something more useful in their - so rare recently - firmware upgrades for the FS7 (my personal favorite being the Class 480 XAVC).

Piotr
 
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