F55: New F55 owner, new to forum, new to industry - any advice, hints etc
- Thread starter captainjman
- Start date
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Jase
If you step into the commercial arena and assist for free you 'steal' from a paid assistant, lend your camera you 'steal' from a rental house - or it can seem like that if you are an assistant or rental house who misses a gig - a gig that might be important for paying the mortgage.
Ive seen both sides of the coin over the years - As a journeyman has worked with images for 20 years (100% of my adult income) it is certainly annoying to compete against early pension Police/Forces types who are living off a big pension and don't need to charge full commercial rates, but credit to them for working hard getting an early pension and turning to their passion into a second career.
Ultimately 'pros' who have the time served should simply be better than retired cops/pilots/dentists/bankers - and if they are not need to step up their game.
It is a narrow dance interacting with that community. I can't tell you how to proceed.
S
If you step into the commercial arena and assist for free you 'steal' from a paid assistant, lend your camera you 'steal' from a rental house - or it can seem like that if you are an assistant or rental house who misses a gig - a gig that might be important for paying the mortgage.
Ive seen both sides of the coin over the years - As a journeyman has worked with images for 20 years (100% of my adult income) it is certainly annoying to compete against early pension Police/Forces types who are living off a big pension and don't need to charge full commercial rates, but credit to them for working hard getting an early pension and turning to their passion into a second career.
Ultimately 'pros' who have the time served should simply be better than retired cops/pilots/dentists/bankers - and if they are not need to step up their game.
It is a narrow dance interacting with that community. I can't tell you how to proceed.
S
Last edited:
captainjman
Well-known member
Morgan,
See, now when discussed in a civil way people can come to an understanding and work together. I think it's clear that I am not interested in making waves of any kind - in fact, all I want to do is learn. Now, if someone has a better idea on how to proceed I am willing to listen and maybe even agree.
I assure everyone here that I am not a high pension type that can afford to work for low wages. Maybe it's time to explain where I am coming from. Since the age of thirteen I have been flying. By the time I was 18 I was already a commercial pilot and by 21 I was a flight instructor at Southern Illinois University, Carbondale. I took an internship with a cargo company and gained enough experience to be insurable in a twin engine aircraft - and that internship lead me to my first "real" job with the same company. I don't see it as "stealing" a job when you intern - I see it as busting your ass, showing people what you are capable of and opening doors for yourself.
I flew cargo as a captain in the King Air 200 and Cessna Caravan - and I was doing fine, I had an interview set with Delta Air Lines for the week of Sept 20th 2001 until POOF - 9/11. My interview was cancelled and no major US air carrier would hire for about a decade. Now I am not saying I was the hardest hit by 9/11, at least I or someone I love wasn't killed - but with low hours and no job... I definitely had a rough start. If I had just gotten to the airlines a couple years earlier I would have been at a major airline making really good money right now, but ... I guess it just wasn't in the cards.
So I ended up flying for a crappy regional airline flying CRJ's - for 17,000 dollars my first year. A job at Home Depot pays more than that - and I had to go to school and all that expensive flight training to get a 17,000 a year job! Still, I saw it as paying my dues. I can't really complain, I was able to upgrade to Captain really quickly and get some quality Jet pilot in command time. But once I upgraded I was bumped and flushed out to Dulles VA where I sat on ready reserve for 9 months flying only a handful of times... but still I saw it as paying my dues.
So I get a job at a fractional ownership company - the plane was designed by blind idiots so it was constantly breaking and I had no faith that the aircraft was built very well, but I was a captain within nine months and was making good money - Building captain time in a twin turbine isn't bad, so I was working there and trying to get my foot in the door at a major airline the whole time I was there. And what do you know - finally, a light at the end of the tunnel the airlines start accepting resumes... thats awesome... and within a couple of months I was hurt on the job - blown off the plane by jet blast and endured a pretty serious spine injury. (among other injuries) - so no more flying for me.
This whole time I have been making money on the side with my photography, and started thinking how much I would like to make my own movie some day- so I decided to sell my prize possession (an Acura NSX) and buy a real good camera, learn how to use it, and maybe be able to make a career out of it once I got better. (I spend about 20 hours a day in bed due to extreme pain after my third surgery).
You know whats funny - I never got a shot at the major airlines... and when I was working for Mesa airlines, the regional airline I mentioned earlier, the united pilots would give us crap about how we are stealing all their routes. As if the pilots were the ones getting the contracts. The guys making 170,000 dollars were telling the 17,000 dollars that we should all decide to quit on the same day - never mind OUR mortgages, wives, kids, car payments, tuition payments, etc etc - because they can't get the schedules they used to have. How comical. See the problem is that if you are not making good money - and the guys that are making good money won't let you join them - the only option you have left is to take the job no one else really wants.
Now the airlines had a chance to have the regional jets under their union - but they weren't interested in tiny little puddle jumpers and the pilots actually voted to not fly the CRJ's themselves. This created the regional airlines that the pilots at the majors hated so much. So the moral of the story is that if you don't want to have a price war with the new guys- include them and give them a path to be part of your community - because is you don't - they aren't just going to give up on their dreams and walk away - they are going to have to find a way to make a living too.
This is why I think acting nicely to people and helping them out, giving them a path to where they want to go is essential. Still there will be people who will have very little talent that will undercut and underbid you constantly. And there is no way to eradicate that problem completely- but the truth is that:
1. They often get the clients that the pro's don't really want to work for anyway - like a 12 hour wedding for 250 dollars.
2. They usually mess things up so bad that they will destroy themselves before too long anyway
I saw this as a wedding photographer - and you know what, as angry as it made me to see people working so cheap - I knew I didn't want to work for ultra low wages anyway. I am not a racist - some trends are just true - and I can tell you that every time I got an email or call from an Indian (from India, not native american) they always wanted a deal so low it didn't make sense to take the job. I can't tell you how many emails and calls I got for Birthdays and Weddings for 150-300 dollar range. That didn't even pay for my albums let alone the long hours, oh, and they of course want the disk too - you gotta give them the disk or they will choose someone else... well, I let them choose someone else. My guess is that you guys aren't working for 10 dollars an hour... or doing free work for a new business that promises to pay you if they ever make money since they are a start-up. Those are the gigs you should be more than happy to refer to the new guy to gain experience when you get a call like that.
You're right Morgan - there is no easy answer - but one thing is for sure - it is not right to threaten someone.
I envision a different scenario - when someone around here has a job they bring me along. They were going to use one camera and they rent the gear they would normally get... but I would bring a second camera... one that was never in the budget but now they get to use for free. It's a win win. No one loses a gig, no one loses rental income - and the videographer gets some extra footage that he may or may not use.. heck, it might be unusable and all I would get out it would be a lesson on what I could have done better. (which is most likely what will happen the first time or two I am sure)
One last thing - I have heard about how the videographer may lose income, or a rental house might lose income - if I am going to be so concerned with their income - does this mean that they will do the same? Will they take my mortgage into consideration? Or the fact that I have kids that I plan on putting through college down the road? If this is truly a community surely they will care about my needs as well, right?
So in closing - To all of you guys who travel to shoot a gig - are you not taking away business from the local videographers there? Do you think you will not get the job for a major shoot because some noob is willing to do it for less? Do you think I could really pull off doing a major shoot? Do you think a major corporation is going to take the guy with no experience over you? If I had come here and threatened you guys, would it be tolerated? I come in peace, I really do - but no matter how much of a temper tantrum someone throws I am not going to just leave... I have a right to follow my dreams just like you... and I am sure the rental house will be more than happy to rent me the gear I need - just as much as they like renting to you... seriously, do you not buy a camera? Where is the bleeding heart for the rental house when you dared to buy your camera? Sure, you were here first - which is why I came here asking for guidance. But just because you were here first doesn't mean I am trespassing when I decide to join the party. And really, why would anyONE want to start off as enemies? That just doesn't make sense.
Morgan - I am sorry if I am still stuck on the other guys post - I still can't believe how rude that was, and I am still waiting for an apology from him.
See, now when discussed in a civil way people can come to an understanding and work together. I think it's clear that I am not interested in making waves of any kind - in fact, all I want to do is learn. Now, if someone has a better idea on how to proceed I am willing to listen and maybe even agree.
I assure everyone here that I am not a high pension type that can afford to work for low wages. Maybe it's time to explain where I am coming from. Since the age of thirteen I have been flying. By the time I was 18 I was already a commercial pilot and by 21 I was a flight instructor at Southern Illinois University, Carbondale. I took an internship with a cargo company and gained enough experience to be insurable in a twin engine aircraft - and that internship lead me to my first "real" job with the same company. I don't see it as "stealing" a job when you intern - I see it as busting your ass, showing people what you are capable of and opening doors for yourself.
I flew cargo as a captain in the King Air 200 and Cessna Caravan - and I was doing fine, I had an interview set with Delta Air Lines for the week of Sept 20th 2001 until POOF - 9/11. My interview was cancelled and no major US air carrier would hire for about a decade. Now I am not saying I was the hardest hit by 9/11, at least I or someone I love wasn't killed - but with low hours and no job... I definitely had a rough start. If I had just gotten to the airlines a couple years earlier I would have been at a major airline making really good money right now, but ... I guess it just wasn't in the cards.
So I ended up flying for a crappy regional airline flying CRJ's - for 17,000 dollars my first year. A job at Home Depot pays more than that - and I had to go to school and all that expensive flight training to get a 17,000 a year job! Still, I saw it as paying my dues. I can't really complain, I was able to upgrade to Captain really quickly and get some quality Jet pilot in command time. But once I upgraded I was bumped and flushed out to Dulles VA where I sat on ready reserve for 9 months flying only a handful of times... but still I saw it as paying my dues.
So I get a job at a fractional ownership company - the plane was designed by blind idiots so it was constantly breaking and I had no faith that the aircraft was built very well, but I was a captain within nine months and was making good money - Building captain time in a twin turbine isn't bad, so I was working there and trying to get my foot in the door at a major airline the whole time I was there. And what do you know - finally, a light at the end of the tunnel the airlines start accepting resumes... thats awesome... and within a couple of months I was hurt on the job - blown off the plane by jet blast and endured a pretty serious spine injury. (among other injuries) - so no more flying for me.
This whole time I have been making money on the side with my photography, and started thinking how much I would like to make my own movie some day- so I decided to sell my prize possession (an Acura NSX) and buy a real good camera, learn how to use it, and maybe be able to make a career out of it once I got better. (I spend about 20 hours a day in bed due to extreme pain after my third surgery).
You know whats funny - I never got a shot at the major airlines... and when I was working for Mesa airlines, the regional airline I mentioned earlier, the united pilots would give us crap about how we are stealing all their routes. As if the pilots were the ones getting the contracts. The guys making 170,000 dollars were telling the 17,000 dollars that we should all decide to quit on the same day - never mind OUR mortgages, wives, kids, car payments, tuition payments, etc etc - because they can't get the schedules they used to have. How comical. See the problem is that if you are not making good money - and the guys that are making good money won't let you join them - the only option you have left is to take the job no one else really wants.
Now the airlines had a chance to have the regional jets under their union - but they weren't interested in tiny little puddle jumpers and the pilots actually voted to not fly the CRJ's themselves. This created the regional airlines that the pilots at the majors hated so much. So the moral of the story is that if you don't want to have a price war with the new guys- include them and give them a path to be part of your community - because is you don't - they aren't just going to give up on their dreams and walk away - they are going to have to find a way to make a living too.
This is why I think acting nicely to people and helping them out, giving them a path to where they want to go is essential. Still there will be people who will have very little talent that will undercut and underbid you constantly. And there is no way to eradicate that problem completely- but the truth is that:
1. They often get the clients that the pro's don't really want to work for anyway - like a 12 hour wedding for 250 dollars.
2. They usually mess things up so bad that they will destroy themselves before too long anyway
I saw this as a wedding photographer - and you know what, as angry as it made me to see people working so cheap - I knew I didn't want to work for ultra low wages anyway. I am not a racist - some trends are just true - and I can tell you that every time I got an email or call from an Indian (from India, not native american) they always wanted a deal so low it didn't make sense to take the job. I can't tell you how many emails and calls I got for Birthdays and Weddings for 150-300 dollar range. That didn't even pay for my albums let alone the long hours, oh, and they of course want the disk too - you gotta give them the disk or they will choose someone else... well, I let them choose someone else. My guess is that you guys aren't working for 10 dollars an hour... or doing free work for a new business that promises to pay you if they ever make money since they are a start-up. Those are the gigs you should be more than happy to refer to the new guy to gain experience when you get a call like that.
You're right Morgan - there is no easy answer - but one thing is for sure - it is not right to threaten someone.
I envision a different scenario - when someone around here has a job they bring me along. They were going to use one camera and they rent the gear they would normally get... but I would bring a second camera... one that was never in the budget but now they get to use for free. It's a win win. No one loses a gig, no one loses rental income - and the videographer gets some extra footage that he may or may not use.. heck, it might be unusable and all I would get out it would be a lesson on what I could have done better. (which is most likely what will happen the first time or two I am sure)
One last thing - I have heard about how the videographer may lose income, or a rental house might lose income - if I am going to be so concerned with their income - does this mean that they will do the same? Will they take my mortgage into consideration? Or the fact that I have kids that I plan on putting through college down the road? If this is truly a community surely they will care about my needs as well, right?
So in closing - To all of you guys who travel to shoot a gig - are you not taking away business from the local videographers there? Do you think you will not get the job for a major shoot because some noob is willing to do it for less? Do you think I could really pull off doing a major shoot? Do you think a major corporation is going to take the guy with no experience over you? If I had come here and threatened you guys, would it be tolerated? I come in peace, I really do - but no matter how much of a temper tantrum someone throws I am not going to just leave... I have a right to follow my dreams just like you... and I am sure the rental house will be more than happy to rent me the gear I need - just as much as they like renting to you... seriously, do you not buy a camera? Where is the bleeding heart for the rental house when you dared to buy your camera? Sure, you were here first - which is why I came here asking for guidance. But just because you were here first doesn't mean I am trespassing when I decide to join the party. And really, why would anyONE want to start off as enemies? That just doesn't make sense.
Morgan - I am sorry if I am still stuck on the other guys post - I still can't believe how rude that was, and I am still waiting for an apology from him.
petermullett
Well-known member
Yes Morgan, this is well expressed.
I remember all too clearly during the transition days from film to digital when the first RED came out….Boy it was "cheap". Cheap enough for way too many people to buy or have bought for them by loving and anxious parents as their kids left Film Schools all over the States. Suddenly PA's were "DP's" simply because they had a grown up camera to offer with their services, and let's face it a pretty good camera at that. Certainly the "flavour of the month" for a long time and responsible for the great sea change in our business.
Many jobs that used to go to DP's who had worked their way up through the game started to go to the new RED owners simply because as there were way too many of the cameras out there the gear rental rates went from + $1000/day to being offered for free just to get the gigs and the new owners became "DP's" by default.
I know of two camera rental houses where I lived and worked that struggled then evaporated from such free "competition" that wasn't there in the days of shooting S16 / 35 / and HD Video.
I am not coming down on Jason at all in this, maybe he's not offering his services and gear for free or for the experience, I don't know. But there are consequences, there has been before and will be again. I am not sure if I agree with Morgan's terminology when he says if you work for free you "steal" from others who have paid their dues, but it is close.
When the camera gear market wasn't so volatile in so many ways and cameras and cinematography needed much more skill and experience to operate and understand I believe that there was more of a structure to our craft, now not so much. For one I am happy that the majority of my years behind a lens have been before this "digital revolution", as easy as producing decent images now can be it's still needs years of craftwork to be considered good at what we do, at least I hope that's true.
Back to Jason. If he really does want to learn then I would say try to get work, yes paying work at any fee, on any set or production that he can….and take anything offered. I am not talking working as a cameraman, I say take any job on set, a runner, PA, Crafty, props, grip or whatever. Get to learn how this game ticks, how a crew works and a project comes together. Learn the process by doing and leave your F55 at home, don't "flaunt" the ownership because in general that would not be appreciated. It wasn't back when with the RED newbies and my guess is that the same applies now too.
Good luck anyway…..But remember it's not the gear, it's the eye…...
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
The eye is all.
It is really difficult. Frankly I want to 'steal' Roger Deakins job and do, of course, hope to win business I didn't have before, which has to impact on someone - and of course there are a bunch of college kids who want my clients.
Trouble is Roger Deakins is too good so I probably wont manage to steal his job!
It is just nice to compete on a flat table where possible.
----
Peter I said it 'seem' like 'stealing' if you are the other party.
-----
I was lucky to get a foot in the door in 1992 at a local newspaper, they gave me work experience but they could have done without me - I was not used as an intern - they allowed me to shadow their top man, that feels like a different and more gentlemanly age! Again I did deserve my 'foot in' (maybe) because I was getting some pictures (late night drinkers) that the staff did not want to do.
----
Jason.
Really it is a long climb and you will learn a bunch just making some films, maybe you have a friend who is restoring a car, or has love of golf or whatever. Get out and shoot.
S
It is really difficult. Frankly I want to 'steal' Roger Deakins job and do, of course, hope to win business I didn't have before, which has to impact on someone - and of course there are a bunch of college kids who want my clients.
Trouble is Roger Deakins is too good so I probably wont manage to steal his job!
It is just nice to compete on a flat table where possible.
----
Peter I said it 'seem' like 'stealing' if you are the other party.
-----
I was lucky to get a foot in the door in 1992 at a local newspaper, they gave me work experience but they could have done without me - I was not used as an intern - they allowed me to shadow their top man, that feels like a different and more gentlemanly age! Again I did deserve my 'foot in' (maybe) because I was getting some pictures (late night drinkers) that the staff did not want to do.
----
Jason.
Really it is a long climb and you will learn a bunch just making some films, maybe you have a friend who is restoring a car, or has love of golf or whatever. Get out and shoot.
S
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petermullett
Well-known member
Last edited:
captainjman
Well-known member
You know what - I'm not going to allow 2-3 people to skew this thread into a rant about "stealing." So from now on, in THIS thread I am going to focus on being a new guy who needs some advice how to get started and I will simply ignore all other negative comments from this point on. I don't think it is fair to the rest of the good guys trying to be helpful to get dragged into a negative discussion because 2-3 people have a chip on their shoulder that a newbie dared to buy a nice camera and wants to make a movie. So if you are the majority of people who understand that being friendly, saying hi, introducing yourself and offering to share what I have in order to learn - great 
If not, go start a different thread about how much you hate me and people like me who steal your business. Please don't hijack my thread... thank you for your cooperation.
To the rest of you who gave me excellent information, THANK YOU
I am getting my R5 today - the tracking infos says that the package is out for delivery, so as soon as they get here I will be able to finally use all the camera's functions. One of the first things I want to do is check out the 240fps.
Some questions:
1. The new manual says that an IFU-WLM3 wireless usb pan adaptor was included with the camera, but mine did not come with it, did you all have on with your F55? If not, does sony send us one for free?
2. I am currently using a camera slider which is too small now - I am considering getting a wheel dolly set up for my tripod, do you suggest that? what do you suggest / use yourselves?
Jason
If not, go start a different thread about how much you hate me and people like me who steal your business. Please don't hijack my thread... thank you for your cooperation.To the rest of you who gave me excellent information, THANK YOU
I am getting my R5 today - the tracking infos says that the package is out for delivery, so as soon as they get here I will be able to finally use all the camera's functions. One of the first things I want to do is check out the 240fps.
Some questions:
1. The new manual says that an IFU-WLM3 wireless usb pan adaptor was included with the camera, but mine did not come with it, did you all have on with your F55? If not, does sony send us one for free?
2. I am currently using a camera slider which is too small now - I am considering getting a wheel dolly set up for my tripod, do you suggest that? what do you suggest / use yourselves?
Jason
Wow, some of the comments are a bit out of order - and here's me thinking Al Capone and the Chicago mob were long gone!!
Captainjman, good luck with your new endeavours. I actually think it takes a lot of courage to do such a drastic career change and I really admire you for that.
Whilst still on the freebie subject, avoid working for anyone for free and don't offer your amazing gear for nothing. One thing is to chuck in a couple of GoPro's for free for a good client of yours, another one is to offer a state of the art camera at no extra cost. Never mind what the Chicago mafia will say or do to you; for me it's the fact that if the client isn't paying for it, then they shouldn't get it. If a price was agreed to use only one camera, then they shouldn't get two. After all, in life you get what you pay for.
On the other hand, I think we all do the odd freebie every now and then. In my case these occur very rarely by helping out prod companies that give me the most work anyway. They tend to be 'pilots' during quiet times of the year in the hope that something will come out of it (for both you and the production company). They are usually good fun to work with and besides, I don't mind helping out those who treat/pay me very well otherwise.
Equally, I don't think there's any harm if you offered to make a video for nothing for the business of a friend of yours or a corporate company you may like. If it's your own initiative and they weren't planning in making a video, then I really can't see that as 'stealing' any work from anyone. Make it clear it's a one off for you to improve on your skills and everyone's a winner.
If I were you I would make good use of your contacts in the aviation industry so that you could end up with kick ass images on your showreel (i.e planes, planes and sunsets, top-gunesque slowmo shots of pilots and sunsets, aerial shots, ...bring it on!). You can always say it’s for a self funded doco, but offer them access to the footage if they want to. Just an idea.
As for technical advice, people like Nate or Starcentral (amongst others) have very kindly shared their findings and knowledge in this forum so I won’t get too much into it. If you have any doubts just ask and I’m sure someone here will help.
Not sure if this will be of any help, but here’s some practical advice you may find helpful. Apologies if I’m being patronising.
Stay fit
My major concern is your spinal injury. I obviously ignore the extent of it and how it affects you, but bare in mind you are entering a very physically demanding profession. We carry heavy gear around, work long hours and often travel long distances. It all puts a lot of strain on our bodies, specially our backs. Make sure you are in tip top form so your back doesn’t affect your work.
Check-check-check
Just like the myriad of checks you have to do before you take off, you should do the same with your film equipment before every job. Find yourself a routine you follow religiously before a shoot. Make sure your camera is set how you like it and has all the right settings (set the viewfinder to your liking, make sure the camera is on it’s base ISO, the ND wheel is clear, the timecode is in its correct setting…). Look at the call sheet for any particular specifications (format, codec, frame rate, clip naming,…) or for any clues you may find useful. Make sure the batteries are charged and don’t forget to check the rest of your gear is in working order (tripod, monitor, lights…).
You must do all this 1-2 days before you start a job so there’s room for maneuver in case something doesn’t work. Obviously you can omit some procedures if you are jumping from one job straight to another one, but the camera checks are vital and should always be done the night before you start your next job. These checks only take 10 minutes – it’s 10 more minutes you’ll have to figure out the coverage and lighting plan when you get to the location.
Don’t be a dick
Talent is over rated. Provided you don’t make major screw-ups, people will want to work with you depending whether they like you or not. We work long hours often surrounded by strangers. People skills are important and being approachable and easy going is always welcomed. I know some really artistically talented guys who don’t get too much work because of their attitude. You are a pilot, so I assume you have good manners and communication skills. Use them!
Don’t panic
Again your pilot skills can be quite handy in this occasion. Panic spreads faster than the plague in any film set and sets a bad mood for the rest of the day. If something is not working as expected, don’t panic. The lesser the panic, the quicker you’ll be able to figure out what’s going on.
Don’t be a hero
It’s not worth risking your health (or worse) for a stupid shot. Make sure everything you do is safe for you and those around you. Don’t get too carried away with DIY rigs when dealing with heavy equipment – if you can’t afford a good grip for such rigs, then look for an alternative less risky shot.
Finally, if you can afford a hands on course or master class that will allow you to play with kit you’ve never worked with before, do it. Equally, you will never be 100% self sufficient, so it’s always a good idea to establish a good relationship with 1 or 2 rental houses. This might lead to better deals and the possibility to play with their new toys. And don’t forget to treat rented gear the same or better as your own kit.
Good luck!
P.S: the USB wireless dongle should be included with the camera. Mine came in a flat box on the side of the main camera box.
Captainjman, good luck with your new endeavours. I actually think it takes a lot of courage to do such a drastic career change and I really admire you for that.
Whilst still on the freebie subject, avoid working for anyone for free and don't offer your amazing gear for nothing. One thing is to chuck in a couple of GoPro's for free for a good client of yours, another one is to offer a state of the art camera at no extra cost. Never mind what the Chicago mafia will say or do to you; for me it's the fact that if the client isn't paying for it, then they shouldn't get it. If a price was agreed to use only one camera, then they shouldn't get two. After all, in life you get what you pay for.
On the other hand, I think we all do the odd freebie every now and then. In my case these occur very rarely by helping out prod companies that give me the most work anyway. They tend to be 'pilots' during quiet times of the year in the hope that something will come out of it (for both you and the production company). They are usually good fun to work with and besides, I don't mind helping out those who treat/pay me very well otherwise.
Equally, I don't think there's any harm if you offered to make a video for nothing for the business of a friend of yours or a corporate company you may like. If it's your own initiative and they weren't planning in making a video, then I really can't see that as 'stealing' any work from anyone. Make it clear it's a one off for you to improve on your skills and everyone's a winner.
If I were you I would make good use of your contacts in the aviation industry so that you could end up with kick ass images on your showreel (i.e planes, planes and sunsets, top-gunesque slowmo shots of pilots and sunsets, aerial shots, ...bring it on!). You can always say it’s for a self funded doco, but offer them access to the footage if they want to. Just an idea.
As for technical advice, people like Nate or Starcentral (amongst others) have very kindly shared their findings and knowledge in this forum so I won’t get too much into it. If you have any doubts just ask and I’m sure someone here will help.
Not sure if this will be of any help, but here’s some practical advice you may find helpful. Apologies if I’m being patronising.
Stay fit
My major concern is your spinal injury. I obviously ignore the extent of it and how it affects you, but bare in mind you are entering a very physically demanding profession. We carry heavy gear around, work long hours and often travel long distances. It all puts a lot of strain on our bodies, specially our backs. Make sure you are in tip top form so your back doesn’t affect your work.
Check-check-check
Just like the myriad of checks you have to do before you take off, you should do the same with your film equipment before every job. Find yourself a routine you follow religiously before a shoot. Make sure your camera is set how you like it and has all the right settings (set the viewfinder to your liking, make sure the camera is on it’s base ISO, the ND wheel is clear, the timecode is in its correct setting…). Look at the call sheet for any particular specifications (format, codec, frame rate, clip naming,…) or for any clues you may find useful. Make sure the batteries are charged and don’t forget to check the rest of your gear is in working order (tripod, monitor, lights…).
You must do all this 1-2 days before you start a job so there’s room for maneuver in case something doesn’t work. Obviously you can omit some procedures if you are jumping from one job straight to another one, but the camera checks are vital and should always be done the night before you start your next job. These checks only take 10 minutes – it’s 10 more minutes you’ll have to figure out the coverage and lighting plan when you get to the location.
Don’t be a dick
Talent is over rated. Provided you don’t make major screw-ups, people will want to work with you depending whether they like you or not. We work long hours often surrounded by strangers. People skills are important and being approachable and easy going is always welcomed. I know some really artistically talented guys who don’t get too much work because of their attitude. You are a pilot, so I assume you have good manners and communication skills. Use them!
Don’t panic
Again your pilot skills can be quite handy in this occasion. Panic spreads faster than the plague in any film set and sets a bad mood for the rest of the day. If something is not working as expected, don’t panic. The lesser the panic, the quicker you’ll be able to figure out what’s going on.
Don’t be a hero
It’s not worth risking your health (or worse) for a stupid shot. Make sure everything you do is safe for you and those around you. Don’t get too carried away with DIY rigs when dealing with heavy equipment – if you can’t afford a good grip for such rigs, then look for an alternative less risky shot.
Finally, if you can afford a hands on course or master class that will allow you to play with kit you’ve never worked with before, do it. Equally, you will never be 100% self sufficient, so it’s always a good idea to establish a good relationship with 1 or 2 rental houses. This might lead to better deals and the possibility to play with their new toys. And don’t forget to treat rented gear the same or better as your own kit.
Good luck!
P.S: the USB wireless dongle should be included with the camera. Mine came in a flat box on the side of the main camera box.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Unless you are on a perfect studio floor, or the odd clean factory you will need to run a dolly on rails.
(a jinky dolly shot is a lens placement fail)
BTW I think sliders are the work of the devil, dolly is a good move.
Personally I use a simple T dolly similar to http://www.microdolly.com/camera-dolly3.php running on PVC track.
Sliders can be great in the countryside - say on a ploughed field where track is a PITA
Sliders are IMO bad because of the time taken to move to the next shot which might involve taking the head on/off sticks - too slow.
S
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captainjman
Well-known member
Hey, I only read the first part of your post, but wanted to clarify - I am not by any means going to not charge a client - that was never the deal. What I was saying is that if one of the guys HERE in this forum was doing a shoot that I would donate my camera to their project so I could learn from them, get experience, see how things are done. I am not saying that I will advertise that Iwill charge less because the camera is paid for. Surely there are some projects that people here do for film festivals, or for friends or for whatever they feel like doing. How can I be hurting anyone at all when they wouldn't have had a second camera on their shoot, but now have ext a footage to use for their film projects? how- please tell me. Because all I hear is how I would be stealing from someone if I dare to volunteer for a project they are doing.
Ok, there is a scenario : Someone on this forum who has a lot of experience is doing a short because he or his friend has an amazing script, so they start shooting this movie. They are renting what they need to rent, they own what they own, and along I come - offering to help with their project... what in gods name is wrong with that? And if there is something wrong with that - the rules should change - because being nice to each other and sharing is a nice thing almost anywhere else Ive been.
Now, If I were to bid on a project and undercut everyone around me because I own the camera - not only would I understand the conflict and anger, but I would be hurting myself. Because new cameras are coming every few years (if not sooner) and if I don't charge for my camera then how do I buy the next one, let alone pay myself back for the investment that I have in this one? I get that argument - but I don't understand how helping people with their projects is hurting anyone... and no, I don't want to be a grip or handyman - I want to shoot my own films as soon as possible and just want to get some practical know how on how to do that - and when I am good enough- if there is a commercial shoot I would love to be a part of that too - and I don't care if the videographer shares for the 2nd camera and keeps the money - I just want the experience.
Ok, there is a scenario : Someone on this forum who has a lot of experience is doing a short because he or his friend has an amazing script, so they start shooting this movie. They are renting what they need to rent, they own what they own, and along I come - offering to help with their project... what in gods name is wrong with that? And if there is something wrong with that - the rules should change - because being nice to each other and sharing is a nice thing almost anywhere else Ive been.
Now, If I were to bid on a project and undercut everyone around me because I own the camera - not only would I understand the conflict and anger, but I would be hurting myself. Because new cameras are coming every few years (if not sooner) and if I don't charge for my camera then how do I buy the next one, let alone pay myself back for the investment that I have in this one? I get that argument - but I don't understand how helping people with their projects is hurting anyone... and no, I don't want to be a grip or handyman - I want to shoot my own films as soon as possible and just want to get some practical know how on how to do that - and when I am good enough- if there is a commercial shoot I would love to be a part of that too - and I don't care if the videographer shares for the 2nd camera and keeps the money - I just want the experience.
congratulations on your f55 I am a working cameraman and in my market the numbers of people using dslrs and cheap 35 mm video cameras have reduced my workload to the point where buying an f55 is beyond my reach at the moment. I think that is the situation a lot here might be facing so when a new comer joins the forum and says they have just bought an f55 it kind of rubs salt into the wounds a little bit. We are all losing work due to the fact that gear is cheaper and more people are entering the pool. This will effect you as well down the line.
Still as pointed out the camera does not make the DOP its your eye and with your years of photography you know that. Why not offer to produce video content for charities who would not be able to afford it ? that way you are getting your hands dirty by shooting and learning from your mistakes without cutting anyone elses grass.
I think the f55 is a wise investment and although you probably won't see much return on it for a year or two it should be a great camera for 3-4 years after that. Follow your eye and happy shooting!
Still as pointed out the camera does not make the DOP its your eye and with your years of photography you know that. Why not offer to produce video content for charities who would not be able to afford it ? that way you are getting your hands dirty by shooting and learning from your mistakes without cutting anyone elses grass.
I think the f55 is a wise investment and although you probably won't see much return on it for a year or two it should be a great camera for 3-4 years after that. Follow your eye and happy shooting!
captainjman
Well-known member
Ryan -
Thank you for welcoming me to the community.
I think it's funny that when you shoot with a DSLR you hear people telling you to get a real camera... so I did, and now I am being told that I am a bastard and rubbing salt in peoples wounds... so which is it, because you can't have it both ways. Now, you are 100 percent right, the camera does not make the shot look good, the guy behind the camera does... which is one of the reasons I don't think that EVEN IF I offered to shoot for a client for free (which I never said I would) that the client would pass - because they want results, not someone who will mess everything up.
I never said I was going to offer my camera or myself for free to a client - I said I was going to offer those to you guys. How can I be stealing your business if I am doing it for YOU. And if by some miracle I got something right and you can use the footage - great... if not, which I assume will be the case for a little while, then I will format the card and try again. Nowhere in that offer do I hear undercutting the existing operators, nowhere!!
Option 1: Lets say you have written a screenplay and are getting together for a shoot with some friends. You rent what you were going to rent anyway, and you call me up and say "hey Jason, we are doing a video shoot of a story I wrote near you, bring your camera and if you get any good footage I will use it.. I am buying lunch for everyone involved, it should be fun"
Option 2: Lets say a client calls you up and says "I need a single F55" - so you bid on the deal and win the gig... so you rent what you are going to rent, and you call me up and say, hey Jason, I have a shoot near you and if you are interested in coming with you can see the behind the scenes stuff and if you want to bring your camera you can, I will show you how to set up for a shot, some pointers, and you can get some footage. We will look at your footage and if there is anything good- do you mind if I use it?
Now look - if you guys are insinuating that I should charge you guys to teach me, well, I am okay with that, I just assumed that would be insane. Why would you guys pay me for footage for a no budget film? That sounds extremely far fetched.. isn't the idea of a no budget film that it is NO BUDGET and free to begin with? But hey, like I said, if you want to pay me feel free- I mean, if it upsets you to see me offer myself for free for your shoot - so be it - how much would you like to pay? LOL
You guys need to remember that my number one goal is to make my own movies. When I shoot my own movies I don't see myself as much of a threat to anyone. But even if I divide to get into commercial videography heavily, wouldn't it be smart to be nice to each other. I mean, if people are nice to me and I am booked on a certain date - wouldn't it be nice if I called you and said "hey, I am busy on the 4th, are you free, I got this possible gig you might like to shoot"... if we are enemies why would we work together and cross promote. It hurts everyone to be mean to one another. Plus, when people are mean to someone, they tend to be mean back -
Jason
Thank you for welcoming me to the community.
I think it's funny that when you shoot with a DSLR you hear people telling you to get a real camera... so I did, and now I am being told that I am a bastard and rubbing salt in peoples wounds... so which is it, because you can't have it both ways. Now, you are 100 percent right, the camera does not make the shot look good, the guy behind the camera does... which is one of the reasons I don't think that EVEN IF I offered to shoot for a client for free (which I never said I would) that the client would pass - because they want results, not someone who will mess everything up.
I never said I was going to offer my camera or myself for free to a client - I said I was going to offer those to you guys. How can I be stealing your business if I am doing it for YOU. And if by some miracle I got something right and you can use the footage - great... if not, which I assume will be the case for a little while, then I will format the card and try again. Nowhere in that offer do I hear undercutting the existing operators, nowhere!!
Option 1: Lets say you have written a screenplay and are getting together for a shoot with some friends. You rent what you were going to rent anyway, and you call me up and say "hey Jason, we are doing a video shoot of a story I wrote near you, bring your camera and if you get any good footage I will use it.. I am buying lunch for everyone involved, it should be fun"
Option 2: Lets say a client calls you up and says "I need a single F55" - so you bid on the deal and win the gig... so you rent what you are going to rent, and you call me up and say, hey Jason, I have a shoot near you and if you are interested in coming with you can see the behind the scenes stuff and if you want to bring your camera you can, I will show you how to set up for a shot, some pointers, and you can get some footage. We will look at your footage and if there is anything good- do you mind if I use it?
Now look - if you guys are insinuating that I should charge you guys to teach me, well, I am okay with that, I just assumed that would be insane. Why would you guys pay me for footage for a no budget film? That sounds extremely far fetched.. isn't the idea of a no budget film that it is NO BUDGET and free to begin with? But hey, like I said, if you want to pay me feel free- I mean, if it upsets you to see me offer myself for free for your shoot - so be it - how much would you like to pay? LOL
You guys need to remember that my number one goal is to make my own movies. When I shoot my own movies I don't see myself as much of a threat to anyone. But even if I divide to get into commercial videography heavily, wouldn't it be smart to be nice to each other. I mean, if people are nice to me and I am booked on a certain date - wouldn't it be nice if I called you and said "hey, I am busy on the 4th, are you free, I got this possible gig you might like to shoot"... if we are enemies why would we work together and cross promote. It hurts everyone to be mean to one another. Plus, when people are mean to someone, they tend to be mean back -
Jason
starcentral
Veteran
I'm only going to say two things:
The IFU-WLM3 should have been in a small white box in the camera box itself.
You think the response you got was bad, check out this thread.
The IFU-WLM3 should have been in a small white box in the camera box itself.
You think the response you got was bad, check out this thread.
captainjman
Well-known member
I guess my wifi adaptor was missing - I will call sony tomorrow
As for that other thread - some people are just too easy to anger on this site. They need to realize that we are new and don't know the industry norms, terminology, etc etc and maybe just cut the new guys a little slack. Everyone was a "noob" at first. You attract more bees with honey they say! Of course, the majority of the folks have been great - including yourself. I am only talking about those who intimidate & threaten.
This industry is very different than flying - probably because flying is life and death - so people are more than willing to share knowledge / impart wisdom. We have a saying "you better learn from other peoples mistakes, you won't live long enough if you make them yourself" In video it seems everyone is split into "teams" - and if you are a DSLR shooter for instance you could never get a friendly response from a Red user, and that your decision on equipment somehow is either a confirmation or direct attack on the other persons purchase decision... if you for instance say that RED's 5K is superior to the F55's 4k image- you don't just deal with the facts but with the emotions of those who purchased the equipment. It's a shame really - it's like everyone has a ruler in one hand and is walking around with their other hand on their zipper- beating their chest - ready to compare sizes with anyone who disagrees with them. it's silly!
Everything in life is a competition - don't kid yourself. Either it's a fight to survive (water, food, shelter) or for business (clients, gigs, box office numbers) but we don't have to be mean to each other. There is room for kindness in competition.. in fact, the very best competitors have a mutual respect for one another.. like we see in the olympics. Sure they are upset when they lose, but they put on a smile, say congrats, and clap their hands for the winner because that is good sportsmanship. Sure, the olympian could laugh out loud at the fat bloke eating cheese fries and a gallon sized coca-cola who says he wants to start working out... but do you see that? no! In fact, that olympian sees himself as a role model for those fat-assed, carb eating couch potatoes - and they try to motivate them to better themselves. So what if the fat-ass says "I want to break the land speed record" - you don't tell him how disrespectful it is to those who train day after day, year after year - you look them in the eye and say "go for it".. "it's hard, but you can do anything you set your mind to it" - and if you don't like that analogy, just stick with what your mom taught you about "if you don't have something nice to say..."
And the vast majority of you guys have done just that - the few who want to restrict use of the track to "pro's only" know who they are. I am not going to spend my career arguing with them- and sometime in the near future when they start talking I am going to put on my headphones and just go running... life is to short to listen to negative crap!
For those of you who are working on your own projects that can use a 2nd or 3rd shooter in the Chicago area - my offer still stands, I will give you my footage for you to use in your movie free of charge. I just want to see as much behind the scenes stuff as possible. No, I am not talking about doing a commercial shoot for free - No I am not talking about not charging for my gear on a commercial shoot... but you all know that already. I don't see anything wrong with a 2nd shooter donating his footage and time for free when everyone else isn't making money on the shoot either. If the actors aren't paid (are your friends), and your sound guy is your friend from film school, and you have a really cool script - PM me anytime - I am more than willing to work with you anyway I can.
So there you guys have it - I am officially back on track with my original post -
Jason
As for that other thread - some people are just too easy to anger on this site. They need to realize that we are new and don't know the industry norms, terminology, etc etc and maybe just cut the new guys a little slack. Everyone was a "noob" at first. You attract more bees with honey they say! Of course, the majority of the folks have been great - including yourself. I am only talking about those who intimidate & threaten.
This industry is very different than flying - probably because flying is life and death - so people are more than willing to share knowledge / impart wisdom. We have a saying "you better learn from other peoples mistakes, you won't live long enough if you make them yourself" In video it seems everyone is split into "teams" - and if you are a DSLR shooter for instance you could never get a friendly response from a Red user, and that your decision on equipment somehow is either a confirmation or direct attack on the other persons purchase decision... if you for instance say that RED's 5K is superior to the F55's 4k image- you don't just deal with the facts but with the emotions of those who purchased the equipment. It's a shame really - it's like everyone has a ruler in one hand and is walking around with their other hand on their zipper- beating their chest - ready to compare sizes with anyone who disagrees with them. it's silly!
Everything in life is a competition - don't kid yourself. Either it's a fight to survive (water, food, shelter) or for business (clients, gigs, box office numbers) but we don't have to be mean to each other. There is room for kindness in competition.. in fact, the very best competitors have a mutual respect for one another.. like we see in the olympics. Sure they are upset when they lose, but they put on a smile, say congrats, and clap their hands for the winner because that is good sportsmanship. Sure, the olympian could laugh out loud at the fat bloke eating cheese fries and a gallon sized coca-cola who says he wants to start working out... but do you see that? no! In fact, that olympian sees himself as a role model for those fat-assed, carb eating couch potatoes - and they try to motivate them to better themselves. So what if the fat-ass says "I want to break the land speed record" - you don't tell him how disrespectful it is to those who train day after day, year after year - you look them in the eye and say "go for it".. "it's hard, but you can do anything you set your mind to it" - and if you don't like that analogy, just stick with what your mom taught you about "if you don't have something nice to say..."
And the vast majority of you guys have done just that - the few who want to restrict use of the track to "pro's only" know who they are. I am not going to spend my career arguing with them- and sometime in the near future when they start talking I am going to put on my headphones and just go running... life is to short to listen to negative crap!
For those of you who are working on your own projects that can use a 2nd or 3rd shooter in the Chicago area - my offer still stands, I will give you my footage for you to use in your movie free of charge. I just want to see as much behind the scenes stuff as possible. No, I am not talking about doing a commercial shoot for free - No I am not talking about not charging for my gear on a commercial shoot... but you all know that already. I don't see anything wrong with a 2nd shooter donating his footage and time for free when everyone else isn't making money on the shoot either. If the actors aren't paid (are your friends), and your sound guy is your friend from film school, and you have a really cool script - PM me anytime - I am more than willing to work with you anyway I can.
So there you guys have it - I am officially back on track with my original post -
Jason
Hi Jason
A little off topic but have you also considered aerial cinematography with your background as a pilot that would put you ahead of many others in understanding flying and combined with your photography background it could be a good combo? In Australia our civil aviation authority has strict rules about using remote unmanned aerial vehicles for video - as soon as you start doing it commercially the rules become quite strict, you basically have to become a pilot. Might be a good sideline to kick things off?
A little off topic but have you also considered aerial cinematography with your background as a pilot that would put you ahead of many others in understanding flying and combined with your photography background it could be a good combo? In Australia our civil aviation authority has strict rules about using remote unmanned aerial vehicles for video - as soon as you start doing it commercially the rules become quite strict, you basically have to become a pilot. Might be a good sideline to kick things off?
Grug
Veteran
That's an excellent idea!
Andrew Stone
Veteran
Interesting. Yes an excellent idea. A year or two ago before these Octacopters came on the scene, people were strapping 5D mk IIs and the smaller RED cameras into these radio controlled hellicopters and crashing them left and right. Fly overs on golf courses, real estate and over churches during weddings are common uses for flying cameras. Ryaninoz is on to something. It could be your niche with your background in aviation.
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captainjman
Well-known member
It is funny that you mention that. I have been discussing the reason for regulation on youtube to quite a few people who at first wanted to kill me thinking I was in charge of the pending regulations and the current illegal status for commercial purposes in the USA. As the discussion grew it started really being a great platform to discuss the reasons why the FAA is making rules and why it is a good thing.
I would love to offer my services to operations as a pro pilot and an RC pilot for a few years as well. (both helicopter and airplane)
The quad and larger copters are extremely stable but truly care large aircraft, worth a lot of money and capable of causing real damage or killing someone. I personally think that the FAA will end up issuing licenses for commercial purposes and requirer a lot of the pilot training especially in the area of airspace, minimum distances etc etc.
If anyone needs a pilot in the mean time I am definitely available - it isn't cheap but at least you know you got a pilot of 24 years flying your expensive gear. There are ways around the rule by not charging for the flight itself and getting paid for something else - like editing etc etc.
Thanks for caring guys- I really do appreciate it. Keep me in mind for your projects - I promise I will not whore out on commercial ventures (just your personal movies, etc)
Jason
I would love to offer my services to operations as a pro pilot and an RC pilot for a few years as well. (both helicopter and airplane)
The quad and larger copters are extremely stable but truly care large aircraft, worth a lot of money and capable of causing real damage or killing someone. I personally think that the FAA will end up issuing licenses for commercial purposes and requirer a lot of the pilot training especially in the area of airspace, minimum distances etc etc.
If anyone needs a pilot in the mean time I am definitely available - it isn't cheap but at least you know you got a pilot of 24 years flying your expensive gear. There are ways around the rule by not charging for the flight itself and getting paid for something else - like editing etc etc.
Thanks for caring guys- I really do appreciate it.
Keep me in mind for your projects - I promise I will not whore out on commercial ventures (just your personal movies, etc) Jason
starcentral
Veteran
Something I've always wanted to know about shooting aerial, is if it can be done through the glass of the plane/chopper with polarizers, or must it be done with one of those external stabilizing domes, etc.. ?
brad smith
Active member
The future is coming
The future is coming
I would never shoot through a window..... unless it was the only option in a pressurised aircraft. You would likely get some awful flares, distortion, and generally degraded optics of shooting through the glass. A pola would be next to useless (for removing the problems of shooting through the glass) as the aircraft would be moving and therefore to angle of polarisation would be continuously changing.
When shooting from helicopters, if you're not using a Cineflex, Fleur, Wescam type of stabiliser, you can opt to shoot from inside the aircraft with the door/window open (always use a harness!). Options would be to shoot handheld, or using a jury rigged bungee cord type of setup, and to improve the shots you could then add a stabilised lens, external bolt on gyros, or go for a tyler mount.
RC aircraft are the future, but it's not the future yet. Once the reliability and safety is improved to aviation standards, and the airspace control, communication, and licensing is sorted, then it will start to become a reality. The days of putting a 2 tonne helicopter and two or more people into the air as a camera platform are numbered.
I think it'll look something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b50GRf1ZAw4
or a version of an octocopter
The future is coming
I would never shoot through a window..... unless it was the only option in a pressurised aircraft. You would likely get some awful flares, distortion, and generally degraded optics of shooting through the glass. A pola would be next to useless (for removing the problems of shooting through the glass) as the aircraft would be moving and therefore to angle of polarisation would be continuously changing.
When shooting from helicopters, if you're not using a Cineflex, Fleur, Wescam type of stabiliser, you can opt to shoot from inside the aircraft with the door/window open (always use a harness!). Options would be to shoot handheld, or using a jury rigged bungee cord type of setup, and to improve the shots you could then add a stabilised lens, external bolt on gyros, or go for a tyler mount.
RC aircraft are the future, but it's not the future yet. Once the reliability and safety is improved to aviation standards, and the airspace control, communication, and licensing is sorted, then it will start to become a reality. The days of putting a 2 tonne helicopter and two or more people into the air as a camera platform are numbered.
I think it'll look something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b50GRf1ZAw4
or a version of an octocopter