New Dmn Interview With Lotsa Pix
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Aaron Koolen
Well-known member
Yeah, I was waiting for someone else to do an interchangeable lens system in this price range. Canon have fallen so far behind the game, they need a good kicking to get their act together.
Aaron
Aaron
Barry_Green
Moderator
The images are one thing, but the formats aren't going to be even comparable: the Panasonic shoots 1080/24p, 1080/30p, and 1080/60i, 720/24p, 720/30p, and 720/60p, all with 4:2:2 color. The JVC shoots only 720/24p and 720/30p. So we have to wait to see how the images hold up, but even if the 720/24p images were identical, the Panasonic's got some major advantages in frame size. And P2 recording is something to behold... so, I think JVC will sell a ton of these to people who don't pay attention to the spec's. For those who pay attention to the spec's, I think there will be a lot of people who "settle" for the Panasonic! 
JoeFowler
Well-known member
Of course we would all want to know everything before we make our decisions, but JVC has "leaked" more then Panasonic has it seems, so it's hard to get too excited. I hate getting my hopes up either way. It just seems like the chances of the new Panny having removable lens is slim, and it's a bit disappointing. I guess when all is said and done we'll have to compare both heavily once they are released, not just announced. Sucks to have to wait though!
Joe
Joe
Barry_Green
Moderator
The waiting should be over less than 7 days from now...
(and then the REAL wait begins, as in, how long will it be before they're both on the market and available to buy?)
(and then the REAL wait begins, as in, how long will it be before they're both on the market and available to buy?)
JoshuaNitschke
Well-known member
Barry_Green said:The images are one thing, but the formats aren't going to be even comparable: the Panasonic shoots 1080/24p, 1080/30p, and 1080/60i, 720/24p, 720/30p, and 720/60p, all with 4:2:2 color. The JVC shoots only 720/24p and 720/30p. So we have to wait to see how the images hold up, but even if the 720/24p images were identical, the Panasonic's got some major advantages in frame size. And P2 recording is something to behold... so, I think JVC will sell a ton of these to people who don't pay attention to the spec's. For those who pay attention to the spec's, I think there will be a lot of people who "settle" for the Panasonic!
The JVC looks a lot nicer than the panny, but with the lower resolution I don't know that I would buy it. I'd really like interchangeable lenses, but I don't think that it's important enough to sacrifice the higher quality (this of course assumes that the 1080/24p mode for the panny has great quality, it may not).
Maybe we can have a mini-35 HD adapter for the camera. Maybe the new Panasonic lens is completely manual (doubt it though).
We'll have to see at NAB I guess.
I wish someone would make the camera. I love the look of the JVC, but if it's not filming at 1080/24p that's a drawback for me. Maybe I'll have to "settle" for the Panny.
tnle2
Well-known member
comet48 said:
He was referring to ergonomics and human interface and I tend to agree. I've been a still photographer for many years and have used both Nikon and Canon gear and IMO, Nikon cameras have always handled better. Canon may have better semiconductor expertise and much more R&D money, but they still can't put the ISO in the viewfinder.
xray
Well-known member
Don't think so Barry, No one buys a Euro 6.000 camera without looking specs. And the specs for the new JVC are good: the resolution is all you need. For handling, a [real] interchangeable lens, cheap long shooting tape, and a better viewfinder it is a promising working tool. You are the progressive promoter remember?Barry_Green said:And P2 recording is something to behold... so, I think JVC will sell a ton of these to people who don't pay attention to the spec's. For those who pay attention to the spec's, I think there will be a lot of people who "settle" for the Panasonic!
Barry_Green
Moderator
I am indeed the progressive promoter, progressive all the way, baby! I despise interlaced video.
What I was saying is, have you ever been to the WEVA convention? It's a trade show for wedding & event videographers, but it's also one of the best video exhibition shows, way way bigger than DV Expo. And it's here (Vegas) so I go and check out the toys. And there are tens of thousands of... how should I put this... CLUELESS videographers there. Guys who barely know the difference between gaffer's tape and DV tape. And they are in business, they are one-man bands, and they're buying thousands and thousands and thousands of cameras and tripods and wireless mics every year. I know I'm a bit of a know-it-all, but I am amazed when I see what's going on out there. I mean, there's guys out there who volunteer to shoot weddings FOR FREE, and if you like the tape, buy it. Their idea of shooting is one of those old-school shoulder-mount VHS cameras. They show up, wave the camera around, and hand over a VHS tape at the end of the gig. $200. That's what they ask. But they're "in business", and there's a million of 'em across the country.
How do these guys function? Yet they do. These are guys who are running small businesses, making their living off of video, and don't really have a clue what's out there. And they don't care. If they like the look of the camera, and if the picture looks good on the monitor, they'll buy it. And these are the guys who are going to take one look at that JVC, see that it says "HD" on the side, and buy it. And they won't know or care that they can't shoot 60p. They'll look at the specs, sure, and they'll see that it shoots "HD". And that's all they'll need to know to justify the purchase.
JVC: 4:2:0
Panasonic: 4:2:2
JVC: 720/30p and 720/24p only
Panasonic: 720/24p, 720/30p, 720/60p, 1080/24p, 1080/30p, 1080/60i
JVC: miniDV and HDV
Panasonic: miniDV, DVCPRO50, and DVCPRO-HD
But then again, anyone who buys solely on specs is being foolish too. There's a lot more to life, and to gear, than specs. You gotta look at the pictures that are produced. If the JVC's 720p blows away the Panasonic's, then that's all that matters. Could it? Maybe. I don't really see how, but I'll say this: when JVC introduced the HD1, they had it on display next to a CMOS-chip box HD camera, and the picture difference was stunning -- the CMOS camera looked SOOOOOOOOOOOO much better, that it made the HD1 look awful. So different technology can have a big impact on picture quality.
On paper, on specs, the Panasonic stomps the JVC. But we don't know yet if the images will keep the promises the specs are making (for either camera).
What I was saying is, have you ever been to the WEVA convention? It's a trade show for wedding & event videographers, but it's also one of the best video exhibition shows, way way bigger than DV Expo. And it's here (Vegas) so I go and check out the toys. And there are tens of thousands of... how should I put this... CLUELESS videographers there. Guys who barely know the difference between gaffer's tape and DV tape. And they are in business, they are one-man bands, and they're buying thousands and thousands and thousands of cameras and tripods and wireless mics every year. I know I'm a bit of a know-it-all, but I am amazed when I see what's going on out there. I mean, there's guys out there who volunteer to shoot weddings FOR FREE, and if you like the tape, buy it. Their idea of shooting is one of those old-school shoulder-mount VHS cameras. They show up, wave the camera around, and hand over a VHS tape at the end of the gig. $200. That's what they ask. But they're "in business", and there's a million of 'em across the country.
How do these guys function? Yet they do. These are guys who are running small businesses, making their living off of video, and don't really have a clue what's out there. And they don't care. If they like the look of the camera, and if the picture looks good on the monitor, they'll buy it. And these are the guys who are going to take one look at that JVC, see that it says "HD" on the side, and buy it. And they won't know or care that they can't shoot 60p. They'll look at the specs, sure, and they'll see that it shoots "HD". And that's all they'll need to know to justify the purchase.
I disagree, I think many of them will, although I can't fathom how. But hey, it's the same thing with televisions. Walk into Best Buy or Circuit City, see how many $6,000 TVs there are for sale. And how many people pick one, not even knowing whether it's 1080-native or 720-native, and not really caring either. They like the size, they like the picture that they see, so they buy it.
I'm not saying the specs of the JVC are bad, heck, I was very, very interested in it until we heard a bit more about the Panasonic. I'm not saying it's bad, but I am saying that from what we know, the specs can't hold a candle to the specs of the Panasonic. Let's take a brief look:
JVC: 4:2:0
Panasonic: 4:2:2
JVC: 720/30p and 720/24p only
Panasonic: 720/24p, 720/30p, 720/60p, 1080/24p, 1080/30p, 1080/60i
JVC: miniDV and HDV
Panasonic: miniDV, DVCPRO50, and DVCPRO-HD
But then again, anyone who buys solely on specs is being foolish too. There's a lot more to life, and to gear, than specs. You gotta look at the pictures that are produced. If the JVC's 720p blows away the Panasonic's, then that's all that matters. Could it? Maybe. I don't really see how, but I'll say this: when JVC introduced the HD1, they had it on display next to a CMOS-chip box HD camera, and the picture difference was stunning -- the CMOS camera looked SOOOOOOOOOOOO much better, that it made the HD1 look awful. So different technology can have a big impact on picture quality.
On paper, on specs, the Panasonic stomps the JVC. But we don't know yet if the images will keep the promises the specs are making (for either camera).