New cinema camera coming very soon: SPARTA

Thanks for the feedback - still no response from Dinamicam Cineraw. I went to another forum (Macarium.com) which IMVHO appears to run by a friend of Dinamicam as they remove posts which explain this situation or question Dinamicam in any way - only effusive praise for Cineraw/Dinamicam there - and banned me with no proper explanation of forum rules I had apparently breached.

If I've lost money at least I can hope to prevent others from also doing so. Surely that is one of the great things about the internet as it can allow us purchasers to connect and forewarn. In this case Buyer beware I say.

So Sparta/Dinamicam/Cineraw - if you read this and this has been some weird misunderstanding (Its been a year now so this is unlikely) - I would like my money back (1344 euros) or a dolly please. At the very least some contact explaining why you took money and sent nothing. Many thanks.
 
Here is a sinister possibility - I have no proof, no insider info, it's just a possibility and pure conjecture- I call it the Flex Dolly Technique.

Flex Dolly had a pretty good product, at a very low price. They send out a few copies to people who post a lot on these forums, who go on to say "Wow! Good product, good price" and write reviews, and so on.

But then.... they only deliver about 60% of orders. These 60% say "Wow, good product, good price" the other 40% tell many a tale of never getting anything and seeking out legal reprisals. This 40% is their profit margin.

The new buyer goes on the net and sees much conflicting info - on the one hand "Great product great price." on the other "I got ripped off." Some buyers take the risk anyway, because the price really is super-low. They have a 60% statistical chance of getting a great deal, and a 40% chance of getting ripped off.

If the seller simply upped his price by 40%, so that he could afford to deliver to all buyers, there might not be any buyers at all, because then the competition, with more efficient means of production, would obliterate them with better products at a better price, it is only through this fraud based discounting technique that they can stand-out with an amazing offer - it is the fraud that makes the amazing offer possible, and the % of genuinely satisfied customers that make new buyers continue to take a risk and open their wallet to the vendor.

It is an old Mafia technique: sell great products to key members of a community, at great prices, but then rip off, extort, etc., everyone else - when these people cry fowl, the people who have been treated well, who were chosen for their credibility, will rise to their defense.

Even some 1970s record labels behaved this way, treating their stars well (the ones most likely to get lots of media attention for their opinions) , but robbing everyone else.

Yes, you have to wait longer, and pay a little more for an Ikonshop, or a Red Scarlet, or a Red One. but one thing you do know with these people, and, intuitively, I'd add Drama to that list, is that you will actually get what you pay a little more for, for sure, no doubt, guaranteed.

There are some reputable vendors here, who will as such give you what you pay for, without any doubt whatsoever, honor their warranties, etc (whether you like their products or not is up to you, but you can give them your Visa number without fear) a non-complete list is : Cinevate, RedRock, Indie-Dolly, CoolLights. Look around, ZERO valid complaints form these vendors. Some people may not like the bokeh of the 35mm adapters they sell, or the feel of their follow-focus units, or whatever, but these are subjective artistic opinions, not fraud claims - there is a HUGE difference.

I think mroe and more, these forums need to be used to warn other users about criminal activity - there are lots of people out there who WILL steal your money.
 
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Robert Ruffo said:
Here is a sinister possibility - I have no proof, no insider info, it's just a possibility and pure conjecture- I call it the Flex Dolly Technique.
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Why not call it the G35 Technique or the Carrion Monitor Technique or the Redrock Mattebox Technique? You can definitely comment on the way that a business is run, but please don't make "conjectures" of criminal intent unless you have solid proof; it's character assasination. I'm sure that no one on here would call Jonathan Houser (maker of the G35) and Luis Sinibaldi (Carrion Monitor) crooks. As for the Flex Dolly, I was one of the first to receive a unit and since then I've ordered another one from Todd Poirier with no issue whatsoever. Spreading FUD about whether this manufacturer or that is lying to you just doesn't make a lot of sense to me at all. It approaches libel.
 
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Whatever the technique is, good business practices deserve praise.

As for folks that take your money and don't deliver, well, they may get disparaged

in public. It's an incentive to honor your contractual obligations, and a warning to

those next in line with their cash in hand.
 
Robert Ruffo said:
Yes, you have to wait longer, and pay a little more for an Ikonshop, or a Red Scarlet, or a Red One. but one thing you do know with these people, and, intuitively, I'd add Drama to that list, is that you will actually get what you pay a little more for, for sure, no doubt, guaranteed.
Click to expand...

How can you add Red to the list when they delivered? Or Ikonoskop when they appear to be pretty serious in what they do and what they have done in the past? Or my project, when you have no experience whatsoever with my product? It's not fair to any of these guys or to my project. All these projects are realistic in their pricing. Red sell lots of vendor specific accessories besides the body, Ikonoskop have not priced their vendor specific media yet (on which the have total control) and my project uses existing industrial components in many of its parts (lower development cost and wide availability).

I was the first to say that the Sparta project was priced at an unrealistic point with no real way to compensate for that, and that it distorted the market and this sites news section with something that can not be delivered, and I got attacked for that. It hurt my project to do so, but 4,999 euro with some accessories for a small volume CCD camera with the company/personal taxes we have today? Knowing the production realities, I had to say something.

That dolly can certainly be highly profitable at the price it has, so there is no reason to not deliver except if something actually went wrong. Mistakes happen, who knows. A single customer complaint can seriously mess with your business, so I can't imagine anyone following your insane plan to sell to half of the people and steal from the other half.

When buying online, always check what you are signing into. An S.L. company in Spain can be formed at a minimum capital of 3,006 euro and this is something that most people take into account when dealing with a company (preorders, selling materials etc). In Greece, the capital required is also a low 18,000 euro. That's why they are called limited liability companies. If you order something that costs more than a few hundred, or deliver high cost materials, find a way to be safe. A contract with a person involved in the company (the limited liability company shareholder) will do that. His/her personal ability to cover you when things go wrong is certainly better than 3,006 euro, probably into millions of euro when we are talking about a south european country high on tourism and with high property value. A small company can go backrupt in numerous ways and in the limited liability case, it is possible that nobody will be covered for his losses. A preorder is a business move. It could be a low 2,000 or 5,000 euro but it's still a contract. Be professional about it and all will be well. When you have a personal contract (preorder, promissed delivery date, terms on returning the money) you can pursue the case in court and easily win. But most importantly, no sane person would do something like stealing your money when his head and his full property is on the line and compensation is easily pursued.

And if you really want to do business safely, read on Letter Of Credit.
 
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Otis Grapsas said:
How can you add Red to the list when they delivered? Or Ikonoskop when they appear to be pretty serious in what they do and what they have done in the past? Or my project, when you have no experience whatsoever with my product? It's not fair to any of these guys or to my project. All these projects are realistic in their pricing. Red sell lots of vendor specific accessories besides the body, Ikonoskop have not priced their vendor specific media yet (on which the have total control) and my project uses existing industrial components in many of its parts (lower development cost and wide availability).
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I think you misunderstood this point of his post Otis. He's saying that yes, Red, Ikonoskop, and very likely the Drama cost more than something like the Sparta but it's because you get a real, working product when you pay your money. You're being lumped with Red and Ikonoskop as a legit company.
 
I'm afraid you are right Butcher. It was a very fast response and my english somehow failed. These products are commonly accused of unrealistic pricing because they are operating on both relatively low margin and relatively low volume. I will not edit the post since that part of the post might be useful and actually supporting Robert's argument.

Robert, my sincere apologies.
 
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Otis Grapsas said:
I'm afraid you are right Butcher. It was a very fast response and my english somehow failed. These products are commonly accused of unrealistic pricing because they are operating on both relatively low margin and relatively low volume. I will not edit the post since that part of the post might be useful and actually supporting Robert's argument.

Robert, my sincere apologies.
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Otis, I appreciate your commitment to the topic at hand and your recommendations.

As someone reading from the US I'm unfamiliar with how things work in Europe. It's interesting to have a little insight into the underpinnings of smaller companies.
 
The USA situation is not different. It is sometimes cheaper, easier, and with less control compared to europe. As an example, I believe there is no minimum capital in Delaware.

But the important thing is to know that the small companies you might be dealing with are not major incorporated retailers with 20 years of business, and deal with small orders of high value which might be tempting to some personalities. I find it surprising how easily people wire money around the globe these days, with so many companies going out of business as we speak.
 
Although Otis you're absolutely right on point that nobody would operate on a business model of selling to half and stealing from another half. It's insane. How is it worth it when customer complaints and legal actions can easily torpedo your business? If you've got a good product, then you sell it at the price that you think the market will bear and that's the only way to compete.
 
In this case we only had one complaint so far and there are satisfied customers around. I believe it will be solved.

It would make sense to stall people for a while. But when I do this for more than three months, I can't be a crook. The word will get out and there would be multiple simultaneous complaints. Crooks always have a plan and it has a short time schedule. Then then need to relocate, change business info etc.

When it goes on for too long, it's probably that I'm badly organised, very bad in dealing with cash, a victim of circustance in panic (currency rates, suppliers going out of business), or somewithone with an important personal problem. From relative experience in local markets, a 40% is when the guy (always a male) was really bad while dealing with the company money legally (working with crooks without knowing it), and a 60% when the guy (always a male again) was covering gambling debts with the money or having extremely expensive lifestyle for his financial situation. They know it will finish somewhere, but they can't help it.

In any case, it makes sense to report any strange behaviour soon (not more than a couple of months). It will be resolved sooner and a solid answer will be publicly presented. It is helpful to others considering the company.
 
Hi guys at Cineraw Dinamicam Sparta - Happy Christmas - Still no email from you about my money that you took (and delivered nothing). Still waiting! Checked again with the bank - no money - Here's a pic of the deposit (jan09) for the Travellcam dolly THAT NEVER ARRIVED....

1rahxu.jpg




and the "remittance advice" that you reluctantly agreed to send back (Oct 09) that (Surprise) NEVER ARRIVED....

2jg01ft.jpg


Still waiting guys...
 
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Hello to Fernando Adaro and Norma Montenegro at Dinamicam Cineraw sparta - it is now officially over one year since you took my money and sent me nothing! Must make your families proud.
 
Hello,

I'll have to agree with you.
I am the UMPTEENTH person to have been ripped off by Flex Dolly, a certain Todd PORER who used to be Todd PORIER with the website FlexDolli. It sounds like he's mostly ripping off people abroad (see German guy's post). Luckily I have family in the US so they've filed a formal compaint with his hosting company. I ordered November 25th 2010 and because of the snow problems at X-mas, I beleived him when he told me that the package was probably lost, etc. And thus, let the 45-day Paypal refund policy lapse, which was exactly what he was aiming for. Afterwards, he replied that he would send another one. Etc. Last week I sent an email telling him that apparently Flex Dolly was a scam and he emailed me back with a fake "Out of office" reply (I had a developer analyse the email).

FLEX DOLLY IS A TOTAL SCAM. Buyers BEWARE.

In 25 years of living abroad I have ALWAYS received packages through the US Post Office.
 
When I saw this thread I was a little excited about the possibility of Sparta coming out soon - not so much now... :( bummer on the money!!
 
Hi again to the CINERAW SPARTA gang. I see you've updated your dinamicam site to add new products etc.

I emailed you recently but got no reply. This is my yearly reminder email. I still have received no money returned or product I paid for from Fernando Adaro (CEO of CINERAW Sparta and dinamicam). Buyer beware with these guys - you will receive nothing but empty excuses and no product. Happy 2011 guys!
 
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