New cinema camera coming very soon: SPARTA

O

Ooze3d

Active member
Hi all,

I started this thread in the "New Guys" subforum yesterday but VGurcu suggested that it would be better to post it here, so here it is:

__________________________________

As the official spokesman for this project, I'd like to introduce to you SPARTA, the new RAW 1080p digital cinema camera. We're finishing its main development now and it will be available in the next few months.

You can read about it here: http://www.cineraw.es/ where you'll also find a PDF document with the main specs, kits and different configurations. It'll be translated to english in a few days.

If you want to know more about this camera, please don't hesitate to ask.
 
If you want to know more about this camera, please don't hesitate to ask.
Click to expand...

Although PDF document is not english it is pretty straightforward, few questions:
-You have a set price E4999, what does it include?
-Is it 1or 3 CCD?
-Monitoring: No viewfinder?
-Recording:HDD, is it a special HDD?
Only output is eSata as it seems, what other outputs are available?
When should we expect to see a working model, and some footage?

Thank you,
 
The 4999 euro price includes the camera body with a C-Mount, a 12.5mm F1.4 2/3" Megapixel Fujinon lens, a 32Gb SATAII SSD (that's the "special" HDD), universal baseplate, 2 15mm rods, SSD support and all cables needed, including SATA and FireWire.

The camera has one 2/3" FullHD CCD of course with global shutter.

Outputs: We're working on a RGB 4:4:4 10bit output and there're also YPrPb 4:2:2 10bit and PAL/NTSC SD outs.

For now we can't say anything about a release date but you can expect to see samples very soon.
 
How much time will that SSD record?

Do you know how much additional SSDs will be?

What are rendering times like to go from DNG to TIFF to 1080P Quicktime?

Anyone know if there any editing programs that take TIFF files natively? It would be nice to eliminate all that rendering.
 
Very promising... Package includes more than i expected...
So it records on swappable SSD drives.
How many minutes can you record onto a 32 GB card say shooting 1080/24p at 10bit 4:2:2 space?
 
32gb should be about 6 minutes of footage fully uncompressed 25p.

A interline CCD is global shutter of course. It has a dedicated area used for transfering the charge between the columns, so no rolling shuttering is required.

Three cameras using the same CCD already, so this will be quite an engineering challenge. It wil be interesting to compare image quality, dynamic range, sensitivity, low light response, noise performance, antismear, flare, channel matching and color response:) We have lots of intellectual property developed exclusively for the Drama processing so I will probably be the first to put the three camera side by side when they become avaialable. There are lots of decisions on the design of a camera and lots of problems that need to be addressed. They are not commodities. It requires precise engineering, but also, lots of manual finetuning which requires more intuition than math.

I see that this camera is available for preorder (see bottom of linked page). Just to be different, we will not offer a preorder on the Drama. We will demonstrate the final assembly, benchmark the recording/workflow, present the full solution and its cost in time and money, and only then, when we are ready to deliver the actual product in a short notice (less than 4 weeks from securing an order with full payment), we will accept orders.

I have to mention that the Drama will be more expensive than the Ikonoskop and a lot more expensive than the Sparta in a body price, although the actual production camera package price depends on cost of storage and monitoring which are yet to be defined in these two products.
 
Ok, let's see:

First of all VGurcu, this camera records either RAW 12bit DNG sequences or 8bit PNG sequences. The RGB 4:4:4 and YPrPb 4:2:2 outs are for monitoring purposes or recording with external devices such as the Wafian recorder: http://www.wafian.com/Pricing.htm

Anyway I want to make clear that no external recorder is needed to record fullHD RAW 12bit DNG sequences or 8bit PNG sequences to the HDD.

Another cool feature is that you can use all monitoring outs at the same time, that is, you can be recording DNG sequences in camera while using the YPrPb 4:2:2 out for monitoring and use the RGB 4:4:4 out with an external recorder for backup purposes.

The raw files in this camera are not compressed in any way, just converted from raw stream to DNG sequence.

The 32Gb SSD included in the kit stores up to 4 minutes of 12bit DNG files at 24fps. That's 5Mb each frame. If you don't need raw data, you can switch to PNG recording to store up to 20 minutes of 8bit footage at 24fps in the same 32gb disk.

We'll be offering different SSDs with 32Gb, 64Gb, 128Gb... Prices are yet to be set.

We'll sell SSDs because we think they're better for this camera since they're quite fast and don't have moving/spinning parts, but the Sparta can be connected to any sata II HDD or even several disks configured in RAID.

There're no plans on including flash card support in the camera.
 
Excuse me Otis. I think you're mistaken.

I know it's in Spanish. We'll offer an english version soon but the bottom of the page says "SIN PREORDER" which means "NO PREORDER".

We're not taking preorders on this camera. It'll become available once it's completely ready.
 
Let the battle of the digital cinema cameras begin. Thats a very good price for the SPARTA. Nowadays if you can manufacture the camera at a good price point and it delivers as promised you will make quite a good amount of sales. We are now expecting video samples!
 
Interesting. SSDs are dropping in price every day. And those Intel x-25E's are blazing fast. I don't know if they'd be as good in a camera but for server applications they blow everything out of the water.
 
About still and video samples, we're still working to get the best out of the CCD. For now we can say we're already delivering 60fps@FullHD but there's still some work to do to improve image quality.

As soon as we get where we want to be in terms of image, you'll know.
 
Oh, being an Athenian, I thought it meant a special price for preorders. In my project we will not set a price point before a production batch because there is no way to estimate with precision, especially with the low integration margin I want to keep on this project, but there is no way we are going for 5,000 euro. Based on the component pricing, it's impossible to bring it to market at this price, support it properly and survive in the long run, without relying on hidden profit of some sort (vendor specific mechanics, storage, monitoring etc). Which is something I'm not interested in. So, the Drama is not going to be positioned to compete with Sparta.
 
First of all VGurcu, this camera records either RAW 12bit DNG sequences or 8bit PNG sequences.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing it up.
RAW data recording certainly has great advantages. It'll be interesting to see an actual workflow where DNG Raw is converted into Quicktime environment. R3d Raw for example is blessing to some, and curse to others...
1080/60p is a bit of a holy grail in the video realm in this price category. I am sure many are waiting for your samples.
My last question is in regards to 8 bit PNG recording: Is this format(or codec) any way quantitively comparable to say long GOP MPEG2 (8 bit 4:2:0 color space) in terms of image quality?

And Otis:
While i appreciate some informative posts you make, could you start your own thread about your 'drama' & 'how you gonna handle business etc' please?
 
Hello VGuru, please don't administrate the forum. If you are a member of the development team of the Sparta, please state so.

Oooze3d didn't. He contacted me a couple of days ago requesting info on sensors that can be used in a project like this. He contacted me as a "fanatic of independent camera projects" and now we have a thread in the news section in which it presents a new product "very soon" on an impossibly low price. Development certainly moved fast! We should get serious about announcing new products in the news section. A new thread on this part of the forum should be about products that are near competion, not product ideas. Anything in development can receive all the feedback it needs in another part of the forum, where it is more relevant.
 
Hey Otis,
I can understand your frustration, you´ve been around for a while now and contributed a lot.
But still, you´re somehow threadjacking this and badmouthing the "Sparta" indirectly (refering to your post Nr.16).
If the Drama will rock, people will rock it.
Just deliver the best product possible and all will be good.
 
I'm just stating the facts and the reality in this market. There are laws in Europe about predatory pricing and misinformation in marketing, and these are quite relevant to niche markets with the high sunk costs involved.
 
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