New Canon Pro HD Camcorders Announced: XF300 & XF305
- Thread starter cowpunk52
- Start date
Seems like a side step or baby step to me. Not sure why I'd buy this over a EX-1/3... of a tricked out Mark II for that matter.
Once you've used these DSLR camera and their depth of field and their multiple lenses, it's hard to go back.
First video camera was the XL-1 - and I loved it - but this seems a year late. Would I use it? Sure. Just not sure I would invest in any fixed lens 1/3" chip set camera unless I was a documentary/news gatherer/wedding guy.
Just seems like the mid-card Panny's offer a lot more at the same basic price range - and obviously you could really trick out a DSLR for that kind of dough.
Am I nuts?
john
Once you've used these DSLR camera and their depth of field and their multiple lenses, it's hard to go back.
First video camera was the XL-1 - and I loved it - but this seems a year late. Would I use it? Sure. Just not sure I would invest in any fixed lens 1/3" chip set camera unless I was a documentary/news gatherer/wedding guy.
Just seems like the mid-card Panny's offer a lot more at the same basic price range - and obviously you could really trick out a DSLR for that kind of dough.
Am I nuts?
john
I agree - unless event shooting is part of what you do- the Canon DSLR's are better for less.
But if this does compete with EX1 in low light performance- I might consider it.
I just shot an event with my 5D and even with a 24mm wide- in a dark room you have to open up the lens and focus is beyond tough on moving subjects. The price on this is a bit steep.
But if this does compete with EX1 in low light performance- I might consider it.
I just shot an event with my 5D and even with a 24mm wide- in a dark room you have to open up the lens and focus is beyond tough on moving subjects. The price on this is a bit steep.
cowpunk52
Veteran
Yes and no.
Why buy this over a tricked out 5DII? Better resolution, better codec, more color information, better form factor, XLR inputs & professional audio features, variable frame rates, variable recording formats, variable bit rates, more custom picture controls, included 18x zoom L series video lens, instant AF, facial recognition autofocus, 4 inch swivel LCD, waveform monitor & vectorscope, no aliasing, no moire, no overheating, no 12 minute clip limit... do I really need to go on?
XF300 vs a Panasonic at that price range? We'll see when the camera is released and tested, but I think it's going to hold it's own very well against any other camera in it's class. Canon's usually do.
However, if all you really care about is getting a picture that has shallow depth of field, then yes, the 5DII is probably the camera for you.
xmephestox
Carbonite Member
keep in mind there is still a huge market for prosumer cam without FF35 or S35 DOF. There are plenty of situations where you need to get the shot, and in focus, rather than trying to find your focus and missing it to begin with. There's a market for everything.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
I got $20 cash that says you couldn't tell 4:2:2 50Mbps from 35Mbs 4:2:0 first generation on an HDTV screen at 6 feet. So unless someone is talking about chromakeying or something similar, the gap just really isn't there. At 100Mbps, yea, there's a real gap.
VGurcu
Well-known member
They coexist nicely. (for event/wedding videography) We recently incorporated DSLR into our workflow. Ironically now I am carrying even more equipment than ever... (DSLR support, tripod, slider etc, case beside all the gear for video) ;(
I also think Canon XF series on paper seems like an excellent combination, and competing with EX1 + Nano flash combo. I personally love Canon lenses, and am a firm believer in mobility: If I can have the 4:2:2 mechanism inside the cam with no extra power supply I'll take it any day over a combo for my purposes.(even though the latter gives you more option)
I used the think different not long ago, but now with the never ending new add-on things coming every day I want to go back to lesser simpler options.
Having said that if you see no value at 4:2:2, EX1 still a solid choice, now its in 2nd generation and very reliable. And available now, unlike the Canon XF. {It is not a big deal really whether its 1/2" or 1/3". An APS-C versus 1/3" is a different story}
Panasonic HPX300 series is a different animal, I agree with Barry on that. A shoulder ENG camera should not be compared to these types of cameras to start with.
At the end of the day it is not the camera, but the cameraman makes or breaks the image. Question of "Which one for me" should be answered on "what will suit me best" notion rather than the "what is best" -as best is a deceptive terminology especially when it comes to technology-
cowpunk52
Veteran
Well, yeah - now you're talking about the law of diminishing returns. However, just because it might be hard to see a difference on an HDTV @ 6ft doesn't mean that the extra information isn't useful, especially when coloring, treating or pushing the footage in post. And if I can get 4:2:2 @ 50Mbs at about the same price as 4:2:0 @ 35Mbs with no significant trade-off, then why wouldn't I?
This is, of course, assuming that the Sony & Canon cameras are comparable in low-light & resolving capabilities, which won't be known until the camera is tested and reviewed.
cowpunk52
Veteran
I'm not gonna hold my breathe for that one.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is no way that Scarlet's release will have an immediate impact on any of these camera. In June, the XF cameras will be on store shelves everywhere, and if you want one, you can have it in your hand the next day. Let's imagine for a moment that tomorrow RED makes the announcement: "You can order a Scarlet NOW!" How long do you think it'll be before everyone who wants a Scarlet gets one? RED doesn't have the distribution arm that a company like Canon has and you can't exactly go to B&H to pick up a Scarlet. I'm willing to be that the waiting list will stretch a mile long and for people who needs a camera NOW, not six months from now, that crosses Scarlet off the list. By then we'll have other alternatives from the big players.
Spartacus
Veteran
The pricetag really is disturbing: I feel like a pawn in a game - I get a better codec than with a Sony and a cheaper recording media than with a PanaP2. But I have to pay much more initially, than one would expect from the "small" Canon...
Has Apple branched out a marketing strategy company and is now advicing the Japanes broadcast manufacturers?
Easiest step for Pana to "catch up" without using much effort would be a free 32/64Gb card offer fo the HPX I guess...
Has Apple branched out a marketing strategy company and is now advicing the Japanes broadcast manufacturers?
Easiest step for Pana to "catch up" without using much effort would be a free 32/64Gb card offer fo the HPX I guess...
Even with a free P2 card one can have 10 CF cards for the price of one P2 card.
I don't use CompactFlash cards, so I did some googling. First, interface type, interface speed and actual read/write speed are different things. For interface Canon recommends cards that are UDMA Mode 4, this means interface speed of 66.7 MB/s. Canon did not specify a particular speed rating. I found CF cards that claim having UDMA Mode 4 interface, yet having 400x, 233x or even 133x speed, this corresponds to (multiply the "x-factor" on 150 KB/s) to 60 MB/s, 35 MB/s and 20 MB/s. In either case, 50 Mbit/s data rate is merely 6 MB/s, which means that a 133x card will do comfortably.
According to wikipedia, in 2004 CompactFlash Revision 3.0 added UDMA/66 mode (that is, UDMA Mode 4) to CF spec, so I think it is safe to assume that all modern CF cards support this mode. This is an important point, because not all cards explicitly list all PIO/DMA modes they support.
Prices at B&H start from $40 for Kingston 16GB Elite Pro 133x. P2 E-series, also 16GB, costs $370. P2 A-series 16GB costs $400 (who will by E-series then?). So, tenfold difference in price. And don't forget that bitrate is twice lower than DVCPROHD and AVC-Intra 100, which means that one minute will be 20 times cheaper than with P2.
XLR inputs on the 5DII?
The Sarlacc
Well-known member
I have yet to like any video camera Canon makes...these seem to be no different. I just had to shoot with the XLH1 or whatever its called...crap.
Shame they didnt make the rumored bodies using the APS-C chip from the 7D and usable Canon still lenses.
Shame they didnt make the rumored bodies using the APS-C chip from the 7D and usable Canon still lenses.
Valerie and Simon Griffith, the producers of Art Wolfe’s Travels to the Edge series, thought differently, and PBS, which normally requires 1/2-inch camera, accepted the show for HD broadcast.
Photo by John Greengo, www.artwolfe.com
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Brooksilver
Active member
This is not exciting news... maybe it's good for news and docs, and wedding videographers, but not filmmakers. Canon's departments need to have a meeting in the same room and combine their efforts, because they are more than capable of putting DSLRs in the right form factor with RAW, full color, variable frame rates, etc.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Nowhere near price competitive with the HPX170; you can get a new HPX170 including the free 16GB P2 card for $3995. And the HVX200A appears to be going for $3895.
As far as Canon MSRP vs. street price, according to B&H:
XLH1S: $8999, B&H $7599
XLH1A: $5999, B&H $5299
XHA1S: $3999, B&H $3395
So street price looks like it's about 12% to 15% less than MSRP.
Which means that the XF300 might street at around $5800.