New Canon Pro HD Camcorders Announced: XF300 & XF305
- Thread starter cowpunk52
- Start date
cowpunk52
Veteran
Word to that - I was really hoping for something in the $4500 - $5000 range, but that was probably just wishful thinking!
"three Canon developed and designed native 1920 x 1080 CMOS image sensors" -- No CCDs. I expect prices on used A1/H1 to go up.
CF cards are a logical choice for 50 Mbit/s speed, and I think Canon also makes them. I saw CF cards with Canon logo. Nothing is said about Type II (thick) cards.
Full manual focus with hard stops.
4.0-inch, 1.23-megapixel LCD monitor, 1.55-megapixel color electronic viewfinder -- better than on the Sonys.
waveform monitor and vectorscope
CF cards are a logical choice for 50 Mbit/s speed, and I think Canon also makes them. I saw CF cards with Canon logo. Nothing is said about Type II (thick) cards.
Full manual focus with hard stops.
4.0-inch, 1.23-megapixel LCD monitor, 1.55-megapixel color electronic viewfinder -- better than on the Sonys.
waveform monitor and vectorscope
What do you mean no word? It is a 1/3-inch block.
With $3,000 price gap Canon is either going to continue with the HDV models, or it has another cheaper lineup up its sleeve, similar to the HMC150 and the NX5/AX2000. I wish they also make a smaller model similar to the HMC40.
robertrogoz
Carbonite Member
I am sure that at first (like all new models) it will be bugged with problems (like the new Sony), plus unproven track record in NLE, 1/3" chip and more $$$ then EX1, I think EX1 still will be hard to beat.
I wonder how well MXF works with FAT32, how well clips can be split in 2GB or 4GB chunks and then recombined. Do Sony and Pana use a different file system (UDF? or something else?) to allow for long contiguous files?
In regards to pricing: MSRP is $3-4K lower than the HPX300/370. Handheld form-factor and lower bitrate. On another hand, better LCD/EVF, a long-GOP but still a good codec and cheap, cheap, cheap media compared to P2 (price difference is almost tenfold, AND you gain twice more recording time over AVC-I 100 with about the same visual quality).
In regards to pricing: MSRP is $3-4K lower than the HPX300/370. Handheld form-factor and lower bitrate. On another hand, better LCD/EVF, a long-GOP but still a good codec and cheap, cheap, cheap media compared to P2 (price difference is almost tenfold, AND you gain twice more recording time over AVC-I 100 with about the same visual quality).
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Barry_Green
Moderator
Current XDCAM-EX and P2 use MXF on FAT32, it's already a known and solved workflow.
Sony of course uses a different file system than Panasonic, they created their own version of MXF. Even so, they all use pointers to link files together to make for continuous recording.
Thanks, I was being too lazy to google. No problems for Canon then?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Yeah, but are you seriously comparing a handheld fixed-lens camcorder against a full-size shoulder-mount interchangeable-lens? 8-bit against 10-bit? Long-GoP against Intraframe? Commodity media (that you can't even write-protect) against a professional media that's designed for ultimate reliability and performance, including supporting editing 12 streams right from the card? Totally different customer.
The proper comparison is against the EX1. And against the EX1, you're looking at smaller chips but a better recording format. And given my recent comparison of the EX3 against the HPX370, there's not a doubt in my mind that modern current-technology 1/3" chips can compete toe-to-toe against the previous-generation 1/2" chips. In fact, I wouldn't be all that surprised if the Canon and the HPX370 are in fact using the same chips (how many 1/3" 1920x1080 CMOS chipsets are there likely to be in the world anyway?) And if the Canon *is* using the same chipset, then it will be a SERIOUS competitor against the EX1.
Barry_Green
Moderator
I can't imagine that they'd release a camcorder aimed at the professional market that wouldn't have the ability for continuous recording. It's definitely supported within the MXF framework, and (while it's assuming) I think I can safely assume that they'll have no problems whatsoever with linked/chained files.
Tsk-tsk-tsk, I thought that P2 was not media at all. I also thought that P2 was supposed to be used as a film magazine, shot onto and offloaded to a computer, so your 12-stream editing from the card does not seem to be relevant. P2 seems to me like a... um... like a Toyota LandCruiser with full off-road package. How many of these actually go off-road, even mild one? All these SUVs are driven on paved highways most of the time.
Write protection is the only downside of CF, and I am sure that some vendor will be happy to come up with super-duper "video" CF with write-protect switch for just twice the price. Not a serious problem.
Long-GOP at 50 Mbit/s is roughly equivalent to intra at 100 Mbit/s, these are not my words, these are what EBU/BBC experts say. 10 bits, yeah. Not a deal breaker for TV, which will stay 8 bit for a long time, they have to switch to 1080p60 broadcast first.
As for other features, the Canon is 40% cheaper. It has slightly curved bottom, I want to believe that this weird look is not just a styling thing, but that Canon actually has some sort of shoulder mount designed specifically for this cam, so that the complete package would look like the XL or EX3. These shoulder mount cams are empty boxes anyway
Maybe not, what is actually inside these boxes? This is a real question. Even batteries are mounted outside.
cowpunk52
Veteran
I couldn't agree with this more. They really are aimed at two totally different types of shooters, and the $3-4k extra for the HPX370 does get you more robust features. However, this camera does fill the niche for more modestly budgeted productions that need professional results a little better than EX1 - at least on paper; and if the 1/3" chips can compete with Sony's 1/2" (which I'm willing to bet, they will).
What I'm most excited about is the ability to get a very robust codec with 4:2:2 color sampling along with an 18x lens in an extremely portable package. Oh, and the cheap media is icing on the cake! I'm really looking forward to seeing what this camera can do!
Am I? From the the ass's ass... I mean from the horse's mouth:
I am not shoving anything. I am saying that Canon made a reasonable choice, because it has no interest in shoving proprietary cards. Where did I read this line? It goes something like this: it is hard to sell $10K equipment after you had used to sell it for $100K. Panasonic still gets some of those bucks back by selling the cards.
Anyway, to finish on a positive note: great move from Canon. Just like the A1/G1, this is a perfect middle ground.
Maybe this new canon camecorders (especially the XF300) will be an interesting option to small productions and low budgets like documentaries, independent movies or free directors. There isn`t a good reason to compare with the HPX370. Furthermore in comparison with the EX1 or the HPX170, this camera solves two problems for this kind of users: an open *lite* codec (MXF) and a low cost *universal* types of storage cards (CF). You *only* need a camecorder, not a complete suite of accesories with the specially need for compatibility or your closed firm fabrication. With all the accesories in the street (in the third world too, for example) is today the most open format high end camecorder for a low budget.
Lens specs on paper seem pretty good.