New atomos Shinobi video monitor

Look we are in a brightness war? 3000 nits is bright! Too bad for me that it's a 7" model, I want a 5" model for gimbal.
 
I'd like to know what tradeoffs we're making by going with a 1000+ nits field monitor, especially the lower-cost units. Such as:

1) How are black levels, shadows, and contrast in these super-bright monitors?
I mainly want to set frame, exposure, and focus. But I also would like a fairly accurate representation of what I see (or at least be able to set and use the monitor in a better viewing environment at the end of the day to see what we've got... and to get clients and producers to chill out and be wowed by the crew's artisanship).

2) Once you get above 1000, do nits and perceived brightness scale more-or-less linearly, or are there curves?
I.e., is a 3000nit screen perceived as being twice as bright as a 1500nit screen (and 3X as bright as a 1000nit screen)? Or is it more like amplifier watts to decibels; like sort of logarithmic?

3) How's battery life on these superbright monitors?
Does pushing through all those nits drain batteries significantly faster, or just a little bit faster?

4) Are nits measurements standardized in these high-brightness monitors?
On consumer TVs, they don't seem to be. I'm not so much worried about shenanigans by the serious large and small makers and sellers of these monitors, but does 2000nits on MonitorA equal 2000nits on MonitorB?

5) How are these smaller manufacturers getting the monitors to produce all those nits?
I presume the smaller companies aren't getting totally custom panels (though I could be wrong). Are they just overdriving something ala gamers overclocking CPUs on their computers? Any serious lifespan downsides to this (ie- if problems won't show up for five years, I can live with that for a while and factor in if the price/life ratio works for me).


Proof of the pudding is in the eating. I'm superglad to see all these affordable options coming out (because I need to buy a couple within the next two months). I just kinda don't want to take the first bite on this...

Answers and thoughts welcome :-)
 
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I would add to that list, what kind of anti-reflective coatings are they using? So far, I'm seeing little to none on any of these high brightness monitors which continues to miss the point.

My history with high brightness displays is as a former Steadicam operator in the tube era. The original Steadicam monitors used an 18,000 volt CRT (not a typo) pushed through a green filter with anti-reflection coatings to maximum contrast and reject ambient light. Later models including specialized LCD's like Transvideos use optical bonding and maintain the anti-reflection coatings.

I've long been baffled by the latecomer manufacturers like SmallHD who have insisted on glossy displays that are terribly suited for on-set use. How many pictures have I seen of people jamming their faces against straight sunshades trying to eliminate the projection of their own face onto the screen? (I tried to show them the CRT-style diagonal Hoodman design and suggested they may want to consider that, but neither they nor any other manufacturer including Hoodman have brought back that simple yet effective concept).

Yes, you can put matte screen protectors onto your monitors, I use one with my Atomos Sumo and Shoguns and it makes them actually useable. I have to take a little hit in sharpness and contrast, but I'm not using them as a reference monitors. Optically bonded anti-reflection is the right way to do it but as is so often the case with johnny-come-lately manufacturers today, they all just copy each other instead of learning from the predecessors.
 
Jim Feeley said:
I'd like to know what tradeoffs we're making by going with a 1000+ nits field monitor, especially the lower-cost units. Such as:

1) How are black levels, shadows, and contrast in these super-bright monitors?
I mainly want to set frame, exposure, and focus. But I also would like a fairly accurate representation of what I see (or at least be able to set and use the monitor in a better viewing environment at the end of the day to see what we've got... and to get clients and producers to chill out and be wowed by the crew's artisanship).

2) Once you get above 1000, do nits and perceived brightness scale more-or-less linearly, or are there curves?
I.e., is a 3000nit screen perceived as being twice as bright as a 1500nit screen (or 3X as bright as a 1000nit screen)? Or is it more like amplifier watts to decibels; like sort of logarithmic?

3) How's battery life on these superbright monitors?
Does pushing through all those nits drain batteries faster?

4) Are nits measurements standardized in these high-brightness monitors?
On consumer TVs, they don't seem to be. I'm not so much worried about shenanigans by the serious large and small makers and sellers of these monitors, but does 2000nits on MonitorA equal 2000nits on MonitorB?

5) How are these smaller manufacturers getting the monitors to produce all those nits?
I presume the smaller companies aren't getting totally custom panels (though I could be wrong). Are they just overdriving something ala gamers overclocking CPUs on their computers? Any serious lifespan downsides to this (ie- if problems won't show up for five years, I can live with that for a while and factor in if the price/life ratio works for me).


Proof of the pudding is in the eating. I'm superglad to see all these affordable options coming out (because I need to buy a couple within the next two months). I just kinda don't want to take the first bite on this...

Answers and thoughts welcome :-)
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1. They are standard IPS LCD panel, so contrast should be around 1000:1, when you use the maximum brightness, blacks will of course be washed out, but you won't notice that in a bright environment.

2. You don't have to go above 1000nits, human eyes perceive brightness non-linearly, so 3000nit luminance won't be perceived twice as bright as 1500nit screen.

3. If you set it to maximum brightness, batteries will drain fast.

4. Nits is a standardised unit of measurement, generally the actual measured numbers are not far off (measurements usually done at screen centre)

5. They use standard LCD panel with high brightness backlight, usually from Chinese manufacturers (AUO), if you constantly use maximum brightness, the LED backlight will age fast, causing colour shift and/or dimming.
 
marvinhello said:
1. They are standard IPS LCD panel, so contrast should be around 1000:1, when you use the maximum brightness, blacks will of course be washed out, but you won't notice that in a bright environment.

2. You don't have to go above 1000nits, human eyes perceive brightness non-linearly, so 3000nit luminance won't be perceived twice as bright as 1500nit screen.

3. If you set it to maximum brightness, batteries will drain fast.

4. Nits is a standardised unit of measurement, generally the actual measured numbers are not far off (measurements usually done at screen centre)

5. They use standard LCD panel with high brightness backlight, usually from Chinese manufacturers (AUO), if you constantly use maximum brightness, the LED backlight will age fast, causing colour shift and/or dimming.
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In your experience, is a 1000 nit monitor at all useful in bright sun without a hood? I have the DJI Crystal Sky 5.5" for my Mavic Pro, it's 1,000 nits but I have not flown it much in super bright sun. I'll have to buy something the week of May 8th and I am leaning toward the Shinobi SDI but never having used one...
 
puredrifting said:
In your experience, is a 1000 nit monitor at all useful in bright sun without a hood? I have the DJI Crystal Sky 5.5" for my Mavic Pro, it's 1,000 nits but I have not flown it much in super bright sun. I'll have to buy something the week of May 8th and I am leaning toward the Shinobi SDI but never having used one...
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1000nit is not enough in direct, Canifornia sun. No problem in shade, or with a good quality hood.
 
marvinhello said:
1000nit is not enough in direct, Canifornia sun. No problem in shade, or with a good quality hood.
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Drat, I was afraid of that. Guess it may have to be the Portkeys 1500 nits cheapo model if the BM5 isn't shipping yet. I can always buy the cheap one for this shoot specifically, then sell it and get the BM5 when it's shipping I guess? or I could always rent something, then get the BM-5. Erik, I know your user report isn't ready yet but what are your first impressions of the BM-5 so far?
 
I have cheapo model from Portkeys with 1500 nits and I have to say, it is much better than I thought it will be. For the price it is very good solution. I can compare it only to Inferno or Swit 3000 nits monitor and it si suprisingly good. Maybe even little bit better than Inferno. It is plasticy as hell but thanks to this it is really light. Battery life is good too (much better than Inferno), I would say almost 2 hours on full brightness with np-f770. On the lowest brightness it is way more. I can’t comment features since I am not using any from the monitor.

EDIT: ups, I meant np-f550, the smallest one.
 
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KrocanX said:
I have cheapo model from Portkeys with 1500 nits and I have to say, it is much better than I thought it will be. For the price it is very good solution. I can compare it only to Inferno or Swit 3000 nits monitor and it si suprisingly good. Maybe even little bit better than Inferno. It is plasticy as hell but thanks to this it is really light. Battery life is good too (much better than Inferno), I would say almost 2 hours on full brightness with np-f770. On the lowest brightness it is way more. I can’t comment features since I am not using any from the monitor.
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Thanks KrocanX, always good to hear feedback from someone shooting with gear you are considering.
 
puredrifting said:
Drat, I was afraid of that. Guess it may have to be the Portkeys 1500 nits cheapo model if the BM5 isn't shipping yet. I can always buy the cheap one for this shoot specifically, then sell it and get the BM5 when it's shipping I guess? or I could always rent something, then get the BM-5. Erik, I know your user report isn't ready yet but what are your first impressions of the BM-5 so far?
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The BM5 is a winner. At $495 it's a bargain. 2000 nits are just enough for daylight viewing. I will have the full review done this week. The cables came in today to test the camera control features.
 
Erik Naso said:
The BM5 is a winner. At $495 it's a bargain. 2000 nits are just enough for daylight viewing. I will have the full review done this week. The cables came in today to test the camera control features.
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Did they tell you $495.00? Early reports were quoting it at $399.00?
 
Jim Feeley said:
Looks like that was a short-term teaser price. Here's a link from the Portkeys FB page:

https://suikui.myshopify.com/collec...am-e2-sony-canon-bmpcc?variant=14385337729087

"BM5 Pre-Sale retail price is $399. After Pre-Sale campaign ends at 4th April. It will recover $499 official retail price."

Huh.
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I hate when companies pull this, hard to be an early adopter if you didn't even have a place to pre-order it from other than the weird and clunky PortKeys website.
 
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