Netflix 4K

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In the circles of content creators, the Netflix 4K requirement seemed like a war against creativity and art.

The logic is straight forward:
Netflix advertised 4K content and starting charging a premium for adding that to the service. If they are showing customers content that is 2k or 3k blown up, they would be accused of false advertising.

Arri knows this and is totally fine with it. Hell, Arri even went out and made higher resolution cameras and sensors.

Customers don’t need 4K for movies, but if they are paying for 4K, let’s hope they are actually getting 4K.
 
I pay for the Netflix 4K service, but my favorite feature is watching a series produced in 4K HDR. I like the HDR a lot more than the 4K resolution. ( 2K HDR would still suit me fine too )
 
Haha! I haven’t fully converted to HDR content yet. Nearly picked up an OLED. But that is cool to hear!

I actually like 4k in the wide shots. Never got that look in SD or HD.

Back in school, i was reading about billboards, and how they actually used low resolution prints to avoid visual anomoly’s. This stuck out to me as funny, because i assumed they need a lot of resolution for such a big service, but the viewing distance meant that a certain amount of lower resolution was actually better.

I almost feel like back in the SD days, the extreme closeup was not just common, but needed to see any texture or detail in an expression, but HD seems to have shyed away from it, as it was less needed, or even unflattering. Idk, 4K brings the wide shot to life for me, and helps with text raterization. Hate seeing the jaggies on HD text. But when streaming, that is the least of my worries usually. Haha. Most of the time, i am just watching something for the content and not the “hifi” component.
 
The least expensive camera on the Netflix approved list is BMD UMP 4.6K (Raw, ProRes HQ), both G1 and G2. The next one is FS-7 (Raw, X-OCN), then C300 MKII (Raw, ProRes HQ). All are sub-$10,000.
 
DLD said:
The least expensive camera on the Netflix approved list is BMD UMP 4.6K (Raw, ProRes HQ), both G1 and G2. The next one is FS-7 (Raw, X-OCN), then C300 MKII (Raw, ProRes HQ). All are sub-$10,000.
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If we really would like to be technically accurate, the BM cameras listed are the URSA Mini 4.6K (this is not the PRO version) and the UMP G1.

The G2 is shipping, but they definitely wouldn't have added it that quickly without testing it. Even though it has the same-ish sensor as the aforementioned, it probably still needs to be tested accurately and thoroughly.

There's also the question of if a used C500 counts as the cheapest sub-$5K camera on the list.
 
NorBro said:
If we really would like to be technically accurate, the BM cameras listed are the URSA Mini 4.6K (this is not the PRO version) and the UMP G1.

The G2 is shipping, but they definitely wouldn't have added it that quickly without testing it. Even though it has the same-ish sensor as the aforementioned, it probably still needs to be tested accurately and thoroughly.

There's also the question of if a used C500 counts as the cheapest sub-$5K camera on the list.
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Always nailing it with the Black Magic details. Thanks for leeping us on point man!
 
DLD said:
The least expensive camera on the Netflix approved list is BMD UMP 4.6K (Raw, ProRes HQ), both G1 and G2. The next one is FS-7 (Raw, X-OCN), then C300 MKII (Raw, ProRes HQ). All are sub-$10,000.
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You missed the EVA1 in there. Only $6495 and you can use the 4K recording on the SD cards if it's in All-I400 10-bit 422.

It's important to note that just because a camera is 4K or even 4K 10-bit 422 does not necessarily mean that it is automatically approved for Netflix productions. There is a specific list published by Netflix and each camera has listed parameters under which they can be used to be considered approved. This doesn't mean that other systems couldn't be used, just that these are all tested and pre-approved.

Netflix's logic in these technical requirements is not simply the marketing of "we said we offer 4K so we have to shoot in 4K." Like no other service before it, Netflix recognizes the value of a library of content. It needs to futureproof its library as much as is reasonably prudent. In addition to the finished graded cuts, all productions have to deliver to Netflix the content in RAW or Log form in 4K or greater. This is so that content can be re-finished at a future date in HDR or who knows what.
 
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mcbob said:
well... you did say as much in the original post
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Ah, i thought you were refering to 4K in general. But yes, i tend to agree that a movie streaming company may not need 4K.

But if thrre are any world nature docs in 4K, you best believe, i’ll be watching in 4K.

I do like higher resolutions and better quality. So, i am totally happy about 8k coming.

That said, when i am binge watching a show, i don’t care if i am watching 720p. 480p isn’t horribly bad if the compression is good.
 
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Ah, yes. Left off EVA1. Not in malice.

My point was that the "approved list" dips far below Alexa65. 4K is a fairly low hanging fruit these days.
 
DLD said:
Ah, yes. Left off EVA1. Not in malice.

My point was that the "approved list" dips far below Alexa65. 4K is a fairly low hanging fruit these days.
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Totally! The penalty for shooting a movie in 4K is almost none, and in some ways it is cheaper to shoot in 4K.
 
The pricing gaps between "good", "really good" and "excellent" is shrinking and shrinking. All the cameras on the Netflix list - did I happen to mention that EVA1 was also on it? - provide TV/feature quality images. It'd be interesting to see on their next update if Z6 and S1/S1H make it, at least, with the external recorders. ProRes 4:2:2 HQ is an accepted standard and Z6 is working on the ProRes Raw with Atomos.

PS. ARRI is still getting premium prices and rates but Venice is making major inroads. The real battle, IMO, will be between the Mini LF, the next generation Canon C300/400/500, S1H (likely) and whatever small unit (FS-5III?) Sony comes out with. The mainstream production is moving toward the faster speed of acquisition mode with the hand held/stabilizer/vest combinations and the electronics are becoming quite adept of fulfilling that task.
 
DLD said:
The pricing gaps between "good", "really good" and "excellent" is shrinking and shrinking. All the cameras on the Netflix list - did I happen to mention that EVA1 was also on it? - provide TV/feature quality images. It'd be interesting to see on their next update if Z6 and S1/S1H make it, at least, with the external recorders. ProRes 4:2:2 HQ is an accepted standard and Z6 is working on the ProRes Raw with Atomos.

PS. ARRI is still getting premium prices and rates but Venice is making major inroads. The real battle, IMO, will be between the Mini LF, the next generation Canon C300/400/500, S1H (likely) and whatever small unit (FS-5III?) Sony comes out with. The mainstream production is moving toward the faster speed of acquisition mode with the hand held/stabilizer/vest combinations and the electronics are becoming quite adept of fulfilling that task.
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I agree that difference between the low end and the high end aren't nearly as differentiated as they were in the past. The BMPCC 4K in particular offers an amazing amount of value and even the relatively ancient FS700 has been given a new life via the Atomos' Inferno and ProRes RAW.

However for budgeted narrative work I think most professionals working on budgeted narrative productions would choose to shoot with an Alexa, Venice or Varicam 35 instead of a mid-range or low end camera. Most of us will shoot with the camera we own but when a producer has a rental budget the savings of shooting with a lessor camera are difficult to balance against the risk to the production. Of course cameras like the BMPCC 4K will find their way into budgeted productions as crash cams or as B or C cameras when their size otherwise mandates their selection.

If you're saying that Sony's replacement for the FS5II will be considered on the same productions as the Alexa Mini LF, I disagree. If anything I think Sony might be a bit nervous that the Mini LF will steal some of Venice's market share. Of course Sony could prove me wrong and release a FS5 MIII with a Venice sensor and 16 bit linear RAW but I doubt that will happen.

I swore off hybrids and DSRs years ago but Panasonic and Nikon have gotten my attention with their latest offerings. I'm especially excited about the possibility of shooting ProRes RAW on Z6 and I hope Panasonic offers support for RAW recording on the S1H. The S1H's internal recording promises to be fantastic but higher bit rate 6K ProRes RAW would elevate the camera further. These are great times for anyone looking for a new camera!
 
Technically speaking, Sony can stick its A7III/Z6/S1/H sensor (yes, it's the same one, with 24 MPX) into a FS-5 body with IBIS and AF, X-OCN S-log to the XQD/CFexpress cards and, with the G-Master lenses, the image quality won't be much different to anyone outside the pixel peepers (and I don't mean it as a slight to the pixel peepers but most folks watch TV off our couches with a beer in hand).

Here's S1 with a V-log test. Is this not good enough for TV?

 
It's nice, but it's not the first mirrorless camera that's looked like this. (And in some shots the footage looks barely graded besides a rudimentary conversion.)
 
NorBro said:
It's nice, but it's not the first mirrorless camera that's looked like this. (And in some shots the footage looks barely graded besides a rudimentary conversion.)
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To quote Osgood Fielding III, "Nobody's perfect".

But, while there have been indeed other "consumer level" 4K cameras that made great looking footage (GH-5S, XT-3) without getting on the Netflix approved list, S1 is a full frame 6K-to-4K model with a full V-Log. And S1H will have actual 6K.
 
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