Need to export DVCProHD to SD DVD but it looks like crap! - PLEASE HELP

M

MDrake

Member
I recently shot my third short film in HD but am not to happy with the quality when I convert down to SD. So I have footage shot from an HVX-200 in DVCProHD 720p60 @ 23.976 fps directly to a firestore. I need to export it into two formats:

1. To a standard definition DVD for distribution.

2. To a *PERFECT LOOKING* HD format to drop into the timeline for a film festival we are entering the film into.

I have exported the format as just a FCP QT movie with current settings and everything for the film festival people as they are editing on Final Cut as well and I assumed that this would be the best quality file I could give them. Please let me know if it isn't.

That however is the least of my concerns right now. My biggest concern is that when I export the movie via Compressor to a SD-DVD preset, it doens't look too good. I don't know if it's the colour rendering I am using (8-bit YUV) or the fact that its just DV stuff on a 40" TV and that is just the format I have to live with (I hope not). Here are my sequence settings:
Frame size: 960x720
Aspect Ratio: HD (960x720) (16:9)
Pixel Aspect Ratio: HD (960x720)
Anamorphic 16:9: *Unchecked*
Editing Timebase: 23.98
Compressor: DVCPRO HD 720p60
Quality: 100%
​
So can anybody tell me what would be the highest quality workflow to go from exporting this timeline into a) a SD-DVD and b) a nice HD format for playback on the computer/to drop into another timeline for HD export?

My assumptions would be to export the timeline to Compressor for SD-DVD then into DVDSP but it looks quite bad. Somebody said do MPEG-2, but I do not know at what settings, and I tried one of the 3 listed presets and DVDSP said "Incompatible Format".

For the HD version, should I export out to something like Uncompressed 10-bit, with high-precision 10-bit YUV? Do I need to create a new sequence with different settings and resize the movie? When I exported to Apple ProRes422HQ (1280x720) it looked really noisy. Is this because it stretched it to 1280 from 960 or is that the same thing just square pixels to rec. pixels?

I basically just need somebody with experience to tell me the BEST workflow to export HD stuff, and the best, smoothest workflow down to SD from 720p. If anybody can shed some light on any of these things it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
To convert hd to sd for dvd make a new sequence (ntsc dv) and drag your complete edited hd sequence into it (this is called nesting). Then render it, use compressor with your usual settings (make sure it's 16x9), bring it into dvdsp and it should look good. You lose a bit of color quality but otherwise it should look just great. If you get stuttering, artifacts, or anything like that something went wrong.
 
Export DVCProHD to SD DVD

Export DVCProHD to SD DVD

I'm currently making DVD's from my DVCPRO HD footage shot at 720p60.
I'm editing in FCP with the sequence preset of DVCPRO HD 720p60.
Then I export using Compressor and the DVD preset of "DVD best quality 90 minutes".
I don't change any of the presets, so it should be encoded with 2 pass variable bit rate NTSC CCIR 601/DV (16:9) into mpeg 2 format.
Now in DVDSP, make sure the new disk you are creating is set to 16:9 sd and you should be good. When we watch it on a 42" HD screen, it looks pretty good.

When I'm keeping it in HD, I use ProRes 422, which is supposed to be lossless encoding.

It sounds like you've tried both of theses things. Just make sure your sequence preset matches your DVCPRO HD 720p60 format.

JB
 
Sharkshooter, I will try exactly your settings. Maybe I just did something wrong last time, who knows.

Is what Alexa said a good idea? To nest the clip? I would have thought the re-rendering again would degrade quality even more?

Also Sharkshooter, do you find that the ProRes422 codec gives you more noise in your shots?? Maybe I am just paranoid but it seems to me that it does.

Thanks for the help guys. Anybody know the facts behind the 960x720 and exporting that to 1280x720? I'll let you know how this next encoding goes.
 
If the festival folks are using the same version of Final Cut as you are, there is no reason to re-render your footage in ProRes. Use the native codec (DVCPro HD).

For the DVD, export your timeline directly from your HD sequence to Compressor (sorry, alexg, I have to disagree with you here), and then go to Settings. Click the "+" button to create a new preset and choose MPEG-2. Give it a name and description. Then use these settings:

Second button (first button is a summary):
-Stream Usage: SD DVD;
-Video Format tab: make sure Aspect Ratio is 16:9;
-Quality tab: Mode: Two pass VBR Best; Average Bit Rate: 6.2 Mbps; Max Bit Rate: 7.7; Motion Estimation: Best
-Other tabs: leave at defaults

Third button:
-Frame Controls: On
-Resize Filter: Best
-Output Fields: Same as source
-Deinterlace: Best
-Adapative Details: checked
-Anti-alias: 0
-Details Level: 0
-Rate Conversion: Best
-Set Duration to: 100% of source


Everything else should be left at defaults. This will give you the best results for an SD-DVD from your HD source, unless you can afford a hardware encoder. Good luck.
 
Export self contained out of your timeline current settings audio and video.

Open compressor and drop the file into it.

Attach the SD DVD preset oonsistent with the length of the video in total minutes, best quality VBR.

Use the ac3/dolby2 audio preset.

Author with the resulting m2v and ac3 files in DVD SP.

I don't what you mean when you refer to "its just DV stuff on a 40" TV."

DVDs aren't DV stuff.
 
Well I think I know what his problems were. I tried going directly to compressor (usual best settings 90 minutes 16x9) with a 24p 720p short documentary recently and it was full of artifacts, tearing, and all other sorts of video problems. I eventually tried nesting it and it worked fantastic. The quality on a 42" hdtv was great. The color suffered a slight injury but it was nothing that anyone besides me noticed. I won't be able to compress it to h.264 for a few weeks possibly but I plan on posting it in the hvx 200 section after compression. I hope people will enjoy it.
 
On second thought, Will Clegg is correct. You should keep the DVCPRO HD footage you'll be using for an HD project in the same format as long as it will work.
I have had good luck with ProRes 422, but there's no reason to encode footage until it's absolutely necessary. When I endcoded Red R3D files into ProRes, it looked great.
 
Thanks guys. Sorry for the late reply. Everything went well and we came 2nd in the film festival! We also won "Best Cinematography"! Yay!

Thanks Will for your very specific and accurate answer, and to everyone else for your input! I will see about posting it on the web somewhere to show everybody.
 
Will Clegg said:
If the festival folks are using the same version of Final Cut as you are, there is no reason to re-render your footage in ProRes. Use the native codec (DVCPro HD).

For the DVD, export your timeline directly from your HD sequence to Compressor (sorry, alexg, I have to disagree with you here), and then go to Settings. Click the "+" button to create a new preset and choose MPEG-2. Give it a name and description. Then use these settings:

Second button (first button is a summary):
-Stream Usage: SD DVD;
-Video Format tab: make sure Aspect Ratio is 16:9;
-Quality tab: Mode: Two pass VBR Best; Average Bit Rate: 6.2 Mbps; Max Bit Rate: 7.7; Motion Estimation: Best
-Other tabs: leave at defaults

Third button:
-Frame Controls: On
-Resize Filter: Best
-Output Fields: Same as source
-Deinterlace: Best
-Adapative Details: checked
-Anti-alias: 0
-Details Level: 0
-Rate Conversion: Best
-Set Duration to: 100% of source


Everything else should be left at defaults. This will give you the best results for an SD-DVD from your HD source, unless you can afford a hardware encoder. Good luck.
Click to expand...

In comparing this custom to the 90 minutes SD preset, the controls are identical in all material respects.

Will: how does yours differ from the preset provided by Compressor?
 
Frame Control settings - these are usually turned off by default. Zak Foresman posted once saying that the real secret to DVD SP is the frame control dialog, so I tried it out and I must agree. BUT it takes a really long time to compress with all those settings on "Best." Which is one of the many reasons why I have upgraded to an 8-core Mac Pro :)

You're right - upon further review, everything else is the same as the SD Two-pass VBR 90-minute setting. I was just reporting my custom settings in as much detail as possible.
 
I know this is a bit late but I'd like to retract my original post. Although I still must say that that method does work and the resulting dvd doesn't look bad (just not as good as if you do what will said). The computer I was compressing and using DVDSP on at the time I later found out was all kinds of messed up. It also managed to put a single blank frame before every transition for one video. I don't know what was wrong with that one but I'm glad it wasn't mine. I switched to a different computer and the world was suddenly right again.
 
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