Need some experienced advice

B

Bluewater Events

Member
Newbie to the forum, but I've spent some time surfing through numerous threads and love all the info available here. I own an event marketing company in South Florida. We produce numerous offshore saltwater fishing tournaments. I want to invest in a camera to shoot our events. I think I've narrowed it down to the EX1 or the HPX170 but could really use some guidance here. My background is somewhat limited in this area.

I like a lot about what I've seen and heard on the EX1. I also have a freelance shooter that I've hired in the past who shoots with the HVX200 and really likes it. I was kind of leaning towards the EX1 but I've read some comments about it being a little heavy for hand shooting. I need a camera that will provide great quality shots outdoors (bright days, early morning, overcast, etc). I don't want something that becomes too bulky or heavy to shoot with for long periods of time out on a boat. The seas can be rough when we are out...which camera do you think will perform the best for me in this situation? These boats can be like a cork bobbing in the water when it is rough! When we want to zoom in for a tighter shot of a jumping fish out in the distance, will one camera perform better than the other?

At some point, I will also invest in an underwater housing for the camera. Any thoughts on which brand may perform better in that environment?

I am prepared to purchase now, but it's not a time sensitive investment. I've seen some comments about what 'may' be coming down the pipe in the near future with smaller handheld HD cams. Any recommendations on whether I should hold off for a while to see what else may be arriving if I am not in any immediate rush?

Overall, I would say that the crispness of the shot is important to me. But it needs to be something that's relatively light and manageable for extended shooting on the boat. Space efficient and compact. We won't always have the luxury of carrying tons of gear on the boats due to space limitations. And durability is a must. Mother ocean can be nasty. I need a camera that's up to the challenge. I have seen a few posts about components of the EX1 that are exposed to the elements which may or may not be problematic for me.

Any advice you guys can give me on this matter is much appreciated!
 
If you want crispness I'd go with EX1. I get the feeling EX3 is too large for what you want to do. Handheld operation is the bane of all of these small cameras. You can get a shoulder mount to manage that. I like Zacuto and they sell kits you might find useful, but their rigs could cost you a few thousand. There are many others to choose from.

You may know high quality underwater housings can easily cost more than the camera, but they do the job as long as you mind the seal.

The steadyshot feature will help. If steady shots and telephoto are essential there are specific systems made for boats I don't recall the name. I'm sure somebody else here knows the name. Obviosuly have a rainslicker on at all times, if not from the rain then from the sun, and protected with a UV/clear filter.
 
Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, for the extra cost of the EX3 over the EX1 I'm not sure the additional features in the EX3 would benefit me. I was thinking I could spend the money I save on additional accessories for the EX1 if I buy it. Still undecided though. Most of the reviews I have read on the EX1 have been from people that shoot in far different environments than I will.

It would be great to hear from some people that have had experience shooting with either camera for purposes similar to what I will be using it for.
 
I think that for extended handheld work, they (small cameras) all are difficult to hold. Get a shoulder brace for that and they all become more equal. I shoot for very long periods with a full size camera like the HDX900 or the F900 and it's easier than with a DVX100. You'll like the 1/2" chip over any 1/3" chip camera.
For your project, you should look at the XDCAM 355 disc camera.
 
Bluewater, are you a videographer?

Just wondering about the role of the camera. Will it be for the casual shot here and there, for your video productions or for the company to have a camera when they hire somebody to shoot the tournamant?

I ask these questions to see your level of involvement in the video world to try and match the right camera.

I am not trying to point any fingers or make you feel uncomfortable but these cameras have a lot of features, settings and extra equipment needed that someone that does not have a lot of video experience might find challenging.

Let us know some more details about your background/knowledge and we will try to help!
 
Xort,

Thanks for your recommendations. I'll check it out.

Bassman,

I own a production company but I am definitely not a videographer. Whatever camera I buy, it will definitely be something I grow into over time. When we have jobs that require hiring someone, generally we have hired people that work with their own equipment, but having the extra camera available will come in handy at times as well.

Mainly, I want to use this camera to shoot events that we run and produce videos that can be used to highlight the events for sponsors, participants and the general public. A lot of the video will be used for promo and interactive purposes on our website. We will use it at our events for entertainment purposes...and within the next year or two, I am thinking about producing a few shows to air locally for promotion of a summer tournament series that we run. We have another series that is slated to air nationally next year which is really exciting, but all of the photog talent for that will be outsourced by our producers.

Outside of that, my true passion in life (besides my family) is fishing. I look forward to carrying this camera with me on the boat a lot for business and fun to capture some amazing fishing footage, above and below the water. As my skills with the camera develop, I would consider doing some freelance stuff for clients, but that is not a consideration at the present time.
 
Thanks for your information.

I will be candid here and give you my opinion as I think it will help you in the long run.

1) - Don't fall into the trap of buying $7000 of camera and then being able to produce material for your company. As camera get more expensive they get more complicated and the user has to make up difference with experience.

My advice, if you value the image of your company, hire out any promotional work and do not try to do it yourself. With HD, yes it is that complicated and it wil consume a lot of time and energy.

2) - The EX-1 is a heavy camera for its size. If you want to hand-hold a camera you really want it to be 4 lbs or less with a battery on it.

But you have to ask yourself, on these days where you are running a tournament, do you want to be fussing around with a video camera or running your tournament? This is the most important question because any camera takes a lot of care and effort to get good footage, especially on a boat.

What I am saying is if you don't have the time or energy to devote to shooting because you are running your business, you are going to get home look at the footage and say, ohh, that makes me seasick!

Handholding smaller cameras is very difficult. You need a brace of some kind, which increase your investment in filming, not financially, but with your time and energy.

You might want to look at the Panasonic HMC-150. I have one of these and it is quite a camera for $3,300. Most of all it is lightweight and it has a wide lens which is what you will need if you are shoot on the same boat as the fishermen.

It is rather tech oriented as it uses SD cards to record onto and the end footage needs to be dealt with on the computer end.

Or you could pick up a used Sony FX7. This would be around $2500 or so and has been used a lot on some Discovery shows like Dirty Jobs etc... It is handheld a lot and uses tapes which is a lot less tech oriented if you don't want to learn a new trade in computer useage!

Hope this helps and let me know your opinion of what I said!
 
Your points are all valid. When it comes to my events, there are a lot of moving parts and I am responsible for making sure they all come together perfectly, so no, I do not have any expectation or desire of being the guy behind the camera for that stuff. When it is needed I will continue to hire freelance photogs for that as I have in the past.

I have been working on a competitive fishing series for the last two years with a business partner that has 30 years in cable TV, primarily in Latin America. We shot a pilot video as a sales tool for the TV component of the show, which will be broadcast on a national cable TV network. During this journey, I have had the great opportunity to work around a lot of talented people and developed a passion for video production, both from a shooting and post production standpoint.

I own a MacPro and have been playing in Final Cut Pro for about the last year, editing small fishing related projects for fun. This is an avenue I want to pursue, because of my passion for doing it, not so much because I am interested in buidling a career around it.

For me, the camera investment will enable me the freedom to get out and shoot a lot of great b-roll fishing footage that we can use in video projects down the road. I also want to enhance our website with more video based content for fishermen to enjoy in the future. Here is the website if you want to check it out: www.bluewatermovements.com
I will take a look at some of the additional cameras you have recommended as well.

It sounds like you would not recommend the EX1 for what I am doing? Is the HPX170 a better option if I wanted to stay with solid state media? Also, with the solid state media, I've been grappling with the best options of being able to shoot continous footage out on a boat without having to carry an abundance of cards. On an average day, we may be out on the boat for 8 to 10 hours. Carrying a laptop to dump the footage is not practical. Is there a small hard drive option that could be used to transfer footage from the camera on the fly?
 
Thanks for more info.

I don't want to talk you out of anything, I just like to clarify things before I give out any recommendations as this stuff is complex.

I own an EX-1 as well and it is a great camera more detail than the Panasonic offerings and the color can be tweaked to get a lot of different looks. It is the best value out there for the money imho.

But I would never want to use it in a mainly handheld shooting environment.

I have the same issue with record times as you. I shoot a lot of live events so P2 has never fit with me.

Solid state is a whole can of worms as you need to have a Backup system of hard drives because you re-use the camera memory so the time you save not using tapes gets eaten by backing up all of your footage!

The HMC-150 can record three hours on an SD card which is nice and might be the best camera for what you have described. It has the same image chips as the HPX-170/HVX-200 and is full raster, but uses a more compressed codec which requires more work on the computer to be able to edit. But the image is very nice and if your main goal right now is web & DVD you will be very happy with the results. And it is very lightweight. Just put a 32gig card in and shoot away. It will go up to 12 hours of record time on lower quality settings as well.

The Ex-1 has the best LCD and has a memory work around using adapters and SD cards. With two 32gig cards the camera can record 4 hours.

So I would try to find a way to go hold these cameras and see how you like them. One other consideration is that your environment is not the best shooting environment with all of the salt & moisture, maybe the less expensive camera would be the better option as it will be harsh on the equipment over time?

Bottom line, all of the cameras mentioned here create beautiful images, you almost can not go wrong. Just down to features and application.
 
Thanks again. No doubt the saltwater environment has to be taken into consideration. I read a couple of posts in other areas where people had stated there were some areas of the EX1 that were vulnerable to the elements and should have had more protective coverings than Sony provided with the cam? Do you know what areas those would be?

Maybe I will rent a camera or two to test them a bit and see how they work for me in terms of ergnomics, ease of use and footage quality. I have some friends in the business that I will continue to consult with as well. Decisions, decisions...
 
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