Need recommendations for multiple camera car mount

CharlesPapert

CharlesPapert

Director of Photography
Hiya!

I'm starting up a new series in a few weeks and we have a bunch of driving work that will require mounting multiple cameras inside the car a la the typical GoPro setup (James Corden's car karoake, Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee etc). However the director would like to improve the look over GoPro's, wants more dynamic range and control over the image. And we need to be shooting in 4K for a network mandated delivery spec.

My first thought is Sony A7SII, because the full frame sensor will make it easier to achieve the wide angle required by several of the vantage points. There's a good chance we will want to run the cameras to outboard recorders anyway (so we could potentially do A7S) which will improve start/stop, run time, overheating issues etc.

What are some other options and would be their advantages?

Thanks!
 
CharlesPapert said:
Hiya!

I'm starting up a new series in a few weeks and we have a bunch of driving work that will require mounting multiple cameras inside the car a la the typical GoPro setup (James Corden's car karoake, Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee etc). However the director would like to improve the look over GoPro's, wants more dynamic range and control over the image. And we need to be shooting in 4K for a network mandated delivery spec.

My first thought is Sony A7SII, because the full frame sensor will make it easier to achieve the wide angle required by several of the vantage points. There's a good chance we will want to run the cameras to outboard recorders anyway (so we could potentially do A7S) which will improve start/stop, run time, overheating issues etc.

What are some other options and would be their advantages?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

A7r II.

If vibration is a concern, it has better Rolling Shutter performance compared to the A7s II in Full Frame, and it's Native ISO is 800 instead of 3200, meaning you could mount them without ND filters. You have a little less detail in the image (~3K detail but still 4K), but I think those two aspects are worth the tradeoff in your situation.
 
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And people were laughing at my Varicam Mini suggestion, what I had (jokingly) in mind would be exactly what you need. A7 and GH5 are kind of big to be stuffing between dash and windshield of most cars, but not really too many other choices. All the smaller cameras of quality are only 1080, which is way too far away from your 4k requirements.

These might be interesting, but I doubt they will have the quality you are after. The only real bonus would be that you could remotely pan/tilt.
http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/products/aw-ue70/index.html


Maybe this:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1333545-REG/panasonic_ag_uck20gj_compact_camera_head.html
coupled with the recorder
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1333546-REG/panasonic_ag_umr20_memory_card_portable.html
Going to be 8 bit 4:2:0 but it looks like you might be able to monitor over ethernet, put a battery powered switch with wifi in the back seat and connect in another car to control cameras and recorders. Haven't used it and it may not even really be shipping, but it might be close to what you need.
 
Charles - you might also want to test the 6300 / 6500 Sony mirrorless. While not FF, (with a speed booster you can get close) they are nice & small and easy to mount just about anywhere. The 6500 has pretty good stabilization (or so I've read) built in. Rolling shutter can be an issue in 4K... but may not depending on your shot. Going out to external recorder gives you 4:2:2 quality and lots of different choices with slog & profiles.
 
The Panasonic GX85 is smaller than the GH5 and can record a clean signal to an external monitor for uncompressed 4K. You could use a wide angle APS-C lens, like the Sigma 8-16mm, combined with the Speedbooster XL (0.64x), to get a wider image in 4K than you would with native lenses.

If you did want to go that route, all of the Panasonic m43 cameras have slightly different 4K crops. The G7 (which is bigger than the GX85, but will still record externally) for instance, should have an image diagonal of around 17.75mm in 4K, which is closest to what a APS-C lens plus the SB XL covers. The GX85 crops a bit further and the GH4 crops a bit further still, so you would lose some of that wide angle.

The GH5 on the other hand, uses the full sensor 16x9, so you would want to use the 0.71x SB. (The GH5 can also do a 1x1 sensor crop in 4k which is just a hair bigger than Super 16.)


Going another route completely, you could also use a fisheye lens that you defish in post to get a really wide angle look. You would need to shoot at higher than 4K, though, as you would lose some resolution in the defishing process. So, that would mean using a larger camera, which may not be feasible.
 
Thanks all for suggestions, keep them coming.

It becomes an interesting set of demands, where the size of the camera at a certain point becomes more about length from front to back than anything else. And of course the vehicle in use--hoping it has a deep dashboard/more vertical front window. A small camera with speedbooster or lens adaptor and a zoom lens starts to become a big camera in that regard, fairly quickly! Plus there is the issue of locating multiples of any given camera--the more exotic/consumer they are, the harder to find as rental items (we won't use them enough days to justify purchase).
 
Is there a requirement to keep the cameras in the car? Hooded cameras outside the windshield and side windows can obviously give you much more room. I've also wondered about using front silvered mirrors on the dash and let the camera be somewhere else to give it more room.
 
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Mounting cameras outside the glass is interesting idea, Paul...I fear that it would be a royal pain in the ass to seal up every time, if you need to access the camera between takes etc. It would have to be a fully comprehensive seal against the glass with the hoods otherwise a sunlight glint could wreak havoc. The mirror thing is also a fun idea (have done a few different mirror gags over the years) but it does add some complication, and it doubles the possibility of vibration.
 
Yes, the mirror idea would require the camera and mirror to mount as one unit, otherwise vibrations would be a big issue. It wouldn't be hard to fab up a plate from 1/2" aluminum stock to make a mount that could hold both on ball mounts. Or, mount the mirror and the camera on ball mounts with suction cups to the glass, which is quite stable. Hang the camera up side down on the windshield in the middle aimed sideways to the mirror or right side up on the side window with the mirror suction cupped to the windshield.
 
I assume one of the requirements is that they can see out to drive? That really starts getting in the way. Having a GH sized camera and anything longer than a pancake lens stuck in the corner of my Fiesta would be a distinct visual impairment. That car characterizes the rake on the glass of most modern "fuel efficient" cars, there really isn't a lot of room and you find the distance between camera and driver to be very small.

This may sound stupid, but going to say it anyway... What about some high end 4K capable phones in the corners? After you put something like Filmic Pro or one of the other apps that allows full manual control you should be able to get decent 8bit video recorded.

The size thing really points back to that new Panasonic system, or a Gopro with different lenses. The Panasonic is apparently out http://ragecams.com/shop/panasonic-....html?osCsid=a3fe6a46edb3cda55cfd7cf8973cd7a6 not exactly a cheap system since you would need at least two of them, not sure if they are rentable yet.

Hero 5 with C-CS mount http://ragecams.com/shop/ribcage-hero5-gopro-lens-p-930.html?osCsid=a3fe6a46edb3cda55cfd7cf8973cd7a6
Hack them yourself lenses for GoPro http://ragecams.com/shop/gopro-acti....html?osCsid=a3fe6a46edb3cda55cfd7cf8973cd7a6
 
Thoughts.

1) there may be rental from online stills camera shops hireacamera?

2) sony cams may power off usb

3) don't knock the sony 16mm pancake

Generally imo sony compacts are pretty horrific bmc micro 1080 is probably better than sony "4k"
 
G85s with fast wide primes...depends of course on the field of view you need, but though both the GX85 & G85 have excellent IBIS, and the GX85 is considerably smaller, the G85 has CineD as a picture profile which is easier to grade and will give your more range...the rest of course comes down to the vehicle/dash/windshield relationship
Below is a link for a small very wide F2.0 m4/3 lens...mostly used for drone work and there are some samples on the internet:

https://www.venuslens.net/product/laowa-7-5mm-f2/
 
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Anyone have any ideas what the show formerly called Top Gear will be using on the Amazon version? Do they have any edicts that require 4K or are they still doing HD? Would it be worth checking the credits on some of the shows from a couple of seasons ago (Netflix and HULU) to get the name of the company that did their in car stuff and contact them? Obviously they are in the UK but they might have suggestions or they might have stuff to rent.
 
Blackmagic Micro Studio is in the running, going to be testing that alongside the Sonys. There's not a lot of feedback about that camera but let's just say I'm cautious. Sam, what don't you like about the small Sonys? We will be using the RX100iv for some simulated cel phone snapchat type stuff on this show too.
 
CharlesPapert said:
Blackmagic Micro Studio is in the running, going to be testing that alongside the Sonys. There's not a lot of feedback about that camera but let's just say I'm cautious. Sam, what don't you like about the small Sonys? We will be using the RX100iv for some simulated cel phone snapchat type stuff on this show too.
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I second the Micro with caveats Charles.
We've got a couple in the kit and use them always.
One is in a Smallrig with a tiny Ikan VL35 (weighs nothing, powered by the same LPe6 as the Micro.)
The other flys and slides, stripped bare.

Aside from size, the easy access to both card and battery (no doors) are great for remote; Prores HQ/raw 3:1/uncompressed raw and of course the DR ans color science are all great.

Issues: nasty little buttons, and if you're doing live audio it would probably rule them out. Two or three fans running in surround sound would be challenging.

Sorry - I just realised you're talking the 4k Studio version. Aside from the card and DR, the Issues would be the same I think.
 
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