Need pro advice about camera purchase for going into the wild

L

Lobbamobba

Well-known member
Hello,
This is a "what camera should I buy thread" but before you send me of to google or start name droping gopros and t4is, here is what I know so far.
I am a Journalist and TV/Radio-producer with 10 years of professional experience and about twice as much as a hobbyist.
As part of my job I spend at least 3 hours a day on forums, youtube and so on. Long story short google isn't gonna help me right now :) what I need is advice from a pro.

Here is my problem.
For my Hobby I use a GH3 and have Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera (bmpcc) on preorder. They say it should be out starting in august but who knows when I will get it. I am number 15 on preorder list in a local store i Sweden so it could take forever.
I have no problem with waiting and will buy it no mater when it comes, but there is one more thing.

In early september my employer is sending me on a field trip for 4 !/2 months. They are equipping me with 1d or some sort of Nikon (not sure yet) mainly for still photography, and I cant compromise my tasks by using it for "fun".

But I also want to bring a camera for my self to make some sort of vlog or just a vacation video on steroids :)
Since it needs to be small, and I mean small I thought the BMPCC would be perfect together with three pancake lenses and a shotgun mic.
Where Im going there wont be any camera stores so bying the BMPCC there is out of the question.

If it shows up in time, fine. But Im starting to feel that its not worth the risk and started looking into alternatives. One that popped up pretty early is the Olympus OMD E-M5.
Its m4/3 so I can use the same lenses, its got stabilization which is good since I cant cary a tripod (or at least not a "real" one), its weather sealed, its got a viewfinder (bmpcc display can't handle brightness and its gonna be BRIGHT!).

The only thing that stops me from just buying it straight away is audio. It has no mic input. I don't know if I need one but I would hate if I find my self needing one and have to resort to crapy in camera audio. Normally I record separately but on the bmpcc I thought I would mount in on the camera to save weight.
I have a Zoom h1, h2n and a Tascam dr100, but I guess I would bring the h2n and have it on me and the shotgun hooked up to it if I cant have it on camera. Thought about mounting it under the camera in the tripod-mount with an flash shoe adapter.

What would you do?
Have you had any experience of dessert/Jungle photography? (Im pretty experienced in "regular" woods and extreme cold, but never the opposite)
Any suggestions on the audio?
Would you hold out or just be safe than sorry and buy an Olympus so I have some time to get comfortable with it before the trip?
Is there another Camera you think would be better?

Would love to hear some thoughts and suggestions :)
 
If I were you I'd use the GH3. It's small enough, is quite well built...you can do video, time lapse, and photo all on one camera...not to mention how seamless the GH cams are flipping from one to the other. That's my take anyway (I think the GH3 is damn near the perfect multi media camera)
 
I was going to say if weight is the concern, the G6 and the new kit lens is only 505 grams. With the kit lens, 100-300, Slik 613CF and a manfrotto 702 video head it's only 5.1 lbs total. Throw in a 1.4 lens for low light work and you can do anything from 29mm - 1500mm equivalent.
 
Have been looking at alot of Olympus videos and I do have to say the OIS is out of this world, like seriosly OUT OF THIS WORLD. And both the E-M5 and PL5 are really small.
But like so many before me I cant get around the 30p only and low bitrate.

Are you listening Olympus? If you sort this out you will steal a huge chunk of customers from Panasonic and the others, me included.

pulpfiction007 said:
If I were you I'd use the GH3. It's small enough, is quite well built...you can do video, time lapse, and photo all on one camera...not to mention how seamless the GH cams are flipping from one to the other. That's my take anyway (I think the GH3 is damn near the perfect multi media camera)
Click to expand...

It is small but not smal enough, think I will have it as a last resort if the BMPCC dont show up.


Mark Williams said:
Panasonic G6 or GF6 and you will be able to use all your lenses.
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c3hammer said:
I was going to say if weight is the concern, the G6 and the new kit lens is only 505 grams. With the kit lens, 100-300, Slik 613CF and a manfrotto 702 video head it's only 5.1 lbs total. Throw in a 1.4 lens for low light work and you can do anything from 29mm - 1500mm equivalent.
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The G6 is a good sugestion, or even the G5 because it costs less than half of the G6, but its to close to the size of the GH3.

ectobuilder said:
Wait for the upcoming NEX FF, that may have what you need
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Looks good but I guess the BMPCC will be out first.

I really appreciate all the input, hoepfully I will get an flash of logic soon and make the right decision.
 
To the OP, you say you already have and use the GH3. Why wouldn't you just use that?

The GH3 is perfect for the job and can take some abuse/bad weather. It has the mic input you need, the battery lasts much longer than other VDSLR's which is great for travelling, its really not that much bigger than the BMPCC or G6 with equivalent lenses, shoots great stills and video and you are already familiar with it.
 
vtwiz said:
To the OP, you say you already have and use the GH3. Why wouldn't you just use that?

The GH3 is perfect for the job and can take some abuse/bad weather. It has the mic input you need, the battery lasts much longer than other VDSLR's which is great for travelling, its really not that much bigger than the BMPCC or G6 with equivalent lenses, shoots great stills and video and you are already familiar with it.
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I know, I love my Gh3 :)
But it is to big for this job, it needs to fit with a lens inside a small pocket on my gear, other wise there is a risk that Im not gonna be allowed to bring it.
The thing is that it might be ok, but I dont know, and what if I bring the GH3, have to leave in camp 90% of the time and just have to walk buy all the cool stuff I will get to see over the next 4-5 months.

I made a decission yesterday when I found out that I might not be getting my BMPCC in time not to risk it and bought an OMD, and my god do I hope they release a new one with 25p and higher bitrate because that OIS is like a steady cam rig.
And thats another thing, again I dont really know, but there is definetly a chanse that Im only gonna be able to shoot hand held, quick run n gun.

If I get the BMPCC in time I will take both and one of them will have to stay in the camp, and I can adapt to the situation. If it doesnt show up I migt take the GH3 and give myself some options but then I have to convert the Olympus 30fps to 25, I mean it can be done and with twixtor it looks kind of ok, but its still a shame.

(once again olympus, are you reading this, fix this and take over the whole glidecam crowd in one day:))
 
So tomorrow roumors state that my problems will be solved,
Panasonic GX7:
Small
m4/3
internal stabilization
same videoquality as the GH3

Pleaseeee be true! (and in stock before september).
 
I thought you wanted a camera with a Mic input. So far, nothing suggests the GX7 will have one (hasn't been confirmed that it doesn't have one either).

There is a thread in the GH Forum titled 'Hauled my GH3 to 18000 feet' or something like that. He kept his camera GH3 on his waist/ backpack strap and readily available at the flick of a quick release lever using this product https://peakdesignltd.com/

i don't think there will be a massive difference between the GH3 w/pancake and the GX7 with the same lens. Considering that the GH3 is better weather sealed and has a mic input, I still think its your best bet.
 
vtwiz said:
I thought you wanted a camera with a Mic input. So far, nothing suggests the GX7 will have one (hasn't been confirmed that it doesn't have one either).

There is a thread in the GH Forum titled 'Hauled my GH3 to 18000 feet' or something like that. He kept his camera GH3 on his waist/ backpack strap and readily available at the flick of a quick release lever using this product https://peakdesignltd.com/

i don't think there will be a massive difference between the GH3 w/pancake and the GX7 with the same lens. Considering that the GH3 is better weather sealed and has a mic input, I still think its your best bet.
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I would say everything suggests that it has a mic input, its in all the leaked specs about it, but it was ofically announced yesterday so we will know very soon.
But it wont be released in time, I will miss it by two weeks.

The GH3 is my favourite Camera but I cant risk not being able to cary it, simple as that.
Ive seen the 18000 feet thread, very impressive and nice to watch. Problem is, they dont cary even half the amount of junk I will, not including my camera, let alone the d800 with lenses for work.

For now the plan is to bring the OMD I bought this week and if the BMPCC shows up in time I will both and cary them one at a time.

EDIT: specs on gx7 released now, looks like your right about mic input, shame.
 
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If you want a camera as a 'fun vlog' as you say, what about a Sony HX30v or similar? No mic input but super small, the most amazing image stabiliser I have ever seen, super long zoom lens, shoots 50/60p as well as 24 or 25p. It has a small sensor but I bought my wife one to keep in her smallish bag and the quality is surprisingly good. Yes, if you didn't need the mic input you could say 'ill just get the GX7 with pancake lens but I think you'll find the HX30v zoom range very useful for travel and with its image stabilizer you can shoot very steady footage on the end of that long lens. It's not perfect but thought I'd throw it out there. Very impressed with the HX30v.
you could also go for the Sony NEX7. No In Body Stabilizer but has a S35 sized sensor, mic input, good frame rates up to 60p and with a pancake lens is super small.
 
vtwiz said:
If you want a camera as a 'fun vlog' as you say, what about a Sony HX30v or similar? No mic input but super small, the most amazing image stabiliser I have ever seen, super long zoom lens, shoots 50/60p as well as 24 or 25p. It has a small sensor but I bought my wife one to keep in her smallish bag and the quality is surprisingly good. Yes, if you didn't need the mic input you could say 'ill just get the GX7 with pancake lens but I think you'll find the HX30v zoom range very useful for travel and with its image stabilizer you can shoot very steady footage on the end of that long lens. It's not perfect but thought I'd throw it out there. Very impressed with the HX30v.
you could also go for the Sony NEX7. No In Body Stabilizer but has a S35 sized sensor, mic input, good frame rates up to 60p and with a pancake lens is super small.
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Ok, I will look into the hx30v.
the nex-7 was on my radar for a while but the Primes with OIS where a bit chunky.
 
Yep, every small camera out there is going to have it's compromises. It's up to you where you are prepared to make those compromises.
 
Funny, I'm under the impression that the OM-D is on the larger side of Micro 4/3 cameras. Is it really more pocketable than your GH3? Maybe that's because I carry around an Olympus E-PL3 with a 20mm pancake prime in my pocket for stills, which is a TINY combination for the image quality (and it's only somewhat bigger than my GH1 or GH2 would have been with that lens). The OMD is huge compared to it.
Problem with this combo is that the E-PL3 isn't great at video, and while the OM-D is markedly better, I've never really found Olympus' video modes to be all that impressive at all.

Here's the thing, however: Once you put a pancake prime on any micro 4/3 camera, it becomes rather pocketable. The GH3 is the biggest of the GH cameras to date, and I admit that I don't have one to really compare here, but the GH1 and GH2 with a pancake are pretty respectably small and can easily fit in my jacket or hip pouch.

Meanwhile, I like the suggestion above for a point-and-shoot option. There have been some pretty impressive p&S pocket shooters that pack a lot of 1080p stabilized power into something that fits in a jeans pocket. It may not be cinematic like an interchangeable lens camera, but if the GH series is too big for you it might be a decent option. Some of them have mic inputs, I believe, however I can't recall off the top of my head which ones.

Then again, once you are going for pocketable over interchangeable lens, I might just consider the GoPro3. Proven quality in video mode, especially in bright sun. Not like you're going to be getting any shallow DOF at that point IMO.
 
vtwiz said:
Yep, every small camera out there is going to have it's compromises. It's up to you where you are prepared to make those compromises.
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I sure am, right now it seems that I will compromise fps and bitrate for size, OIS, and Mic Input with my OMD.
If the GX7 would have made it on time I would have only had to compromise mic input with a zoom h1 or h2n (have both).
And I guess at the end of 2013 the successor to OMD would have (according to rumors) made a perfect match with my needs.
But I appreciate all the input, if there only had been a OIS pancake or ned-7 like there is for panasonic.

M. Gilden said:
Funny, I'm under the impression that the OM-D is on the larger side of Micro 4/3 cameras. Is it really more pocketable than your GH3? Maybe that's because I carry around an Olympus E-PL3 with a 20mm pancake prime in my pocket for stills, which is a TINY combination for the image quality (and it's only somewhat bigger than my GH1 or GH2 would have been with that lens). The OMD is huge compared to it.
Problem with this combo is that the E-PL3 isn't great at video, and while the OM-D is markedly better, I've never really found Olympus' video modes to be all that impressive at all.

Here's the thing, however: Once you put a pancake prime on any micro 4/3 camera, it becomes rather pocketable. The GH3 is the biggest of the GH cameras to date, and I admit that I don't have one to really compare here, but the GH1 and GH2 with a pancake are pretty respectably small and can easily fit in my jacket or hip pouch.

Meanwhile, I like the suggestion above for a point-and-shoot option. There have been some pretty impressive p&S pocket shooters that pack a lot of 1080p stabilized power into something that fits in a jeans pocket. It may not be cinematic like an interchangeable lens camera, but if the GH series is too big for you it might be a decent option. Some of them have mic inputs, I believe, however I can't recall off the top of my head which ones.

Then again, once you are going for pocketable over interchangeable lens, I might just consider the GoPro3. Proven quality in video mode, especially in bright sun. Not like you're going to be getting any shallow DOF at that point IMO.
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I have a GoPro hero 2 and will be bringing it for sure. Regarding DOF, I will use a ND-filter (allways do and often shoot wide open at 0.95 in bright sunlight).

Here is my GH3 and OMD side by side, as you can se the OMD is smaller even with a lens.





And I agree, the Olympus OMD and E-P5 video quality has nothing on the GH3, but it isn't al that bad and not to mention the OIS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIAAIClmA6s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o13ndzqQDiQ

But if only my BMPCC would make it on time.... :(
https://vimeo.com/67562461
 
Yeah, I see it now. I never compared a GH3 to my equipment, I knew it was bigger than the GH1/2, but I didn't know how much. I found the OIS to be a bit of a wash on Olympus compared to the rolling shutter which made movement really terrible for me. The OM-D has a much better sensor so I can't really compare. Good luck!
 
When you consider that the same lens on the GH3 would sit under the front flash bulge and not extend further than the GH3's grip, there really isn't much in it between the two. Sure, without the lens the OMD is slimmer but with lens, there is not enough in it to make me give up the GH3's quality, features and weather sealing.
 
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Here's an example when you consider that the lens will sit within the GH3's body and protrude out from the OMD's.
Camera size test EDIT.jpg

Sorry, red wasnt the best colour for the squares but you can make them out enough.

In terms of a belt mounted bag/case to carry both cameras, you can see that size wise both will need a very similar case/bag and while not visible in this photo, both cameras are within a few millimetres of each other height wise.
 
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vtwiz said:
Here's an example when you consider that the lens will sit within the GH3's body and protrude out from the OMD's.
View attachment 74485

Sorry, red wasnt the best colour for the squares but you can make them out enough.

In terms of a belt mounted bag/case to carry both cameras, you can see that size wise both will need a very similar case/bag and while not visible in this photo, both cameras are within a few millimetres of each other height wise.
Click to expand...

Yes its close but its a little wider :)


BTW, I did a test shoot today when I was walking my dog with the OMD, not the best quality but it sure is stable. Didn't have a ND-Filter (got lost in the mail) so its more than a bit overexposed at times.

 
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