Need new Wireless LAV suggestions.

suicdekng

suicdekng

Active member
Had Sennheiser Wireless 100 g3. It is no longer available to me and I need to buy a new wireless LAV system. I will be recording on a Sound Devices 552 mixer. I have a sound man who is good with the mixer and knows what he is doing. We are filming a documentry film that involves micing up a lot of people in outdoors settings.

We cannot use wired mics or plug-in recievers as we must be very mobile. The reciever must be small enough to fit in a mixing bag. There is a lot of free space in the bag's LAV/accessory pocket, about 10 inches long, 2 inches wide and 5 inches deep.

Don't know whether VHF or UHF would be better or matter at all. Looking for cardiod, not omni.

I would be fine with buying another set of 100s, but what about the 112s or the 2000s? Im not afraid of spending a $1,000 on a system if it is really worth the money, but since I was mostly happy with the 100, (a $600 system) I want to know what you all have to say about the other options I have and why I might want to drop a grand on a LAV.

Wireless is a must. Cardiod is a must. The rest is about finding the best.

Thanks for sharing your smarts =)
 
Had Sennheiser Wireless 100 g3. It is no longer available to me and I need to buy a new wireless LAV system. I will be recording on a Sound Devices 552 mixer. I have a sound man who is good with the mixer and knows what he is doing. We are filming a documentry film that involves micing up a lot of people in outdoors settings.
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Does your sound man have his own wireless units to use with your SD552 so you won't need to buy add'l wireless units? Do you already have other wireless units to cover multiple talents in the field?


We cannot use wired mics or plug-in recievers as we must be very mobile. The reciever must be small enough to fit in a mixing bag. There is a lot of free space in the bag's LAV/accessory pocket, about 10 inches long, 2 inches wide and 5 inches deep.
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The Senn. G3 receivers are small just enough to fit 8 in your pocket or 4 for half the space.


Don't know whether VHF or UHF would be better or matter at all. Looking for cardiod, not omni.
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At this point, all G3 series are in the UHF range and most manufacturers are in UHF and moving up.


I would be fine with buying another set of 100s, but what about the 112s or the 2000s? Im not afraid of spending a $1,000 on a system if it is really worth the money, but since I was mostly happy with the 100, (a $600 system) I want to know what you all have to say about the other options I have and why I might want to drop a grand on a LAV.
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G3 112 comes with omnidirectional lavalier, 122's come with their cardioid lavalier microphone.
G3 500 series are the same with more features you wouldn't need in a field environment.
If looking into the G3 2000 series, mind as well go with Audio Ltd, Lectro, and/or Zaxcom (more expensive, but worth their value).
If you're mostly close to your subjects, you could opt for a dual receiver to save space and weight. Depending on how many people you are planning to wire up during your doc, count for maximum at any given time.


Wireless is a must.
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Presuming you are also going wireless to camera, you'll need to consider that into your budget. Either mono or L/R stereo, the latter requires a bigger budget. Are you also recording discreet tracks for each talent/source? The SD552 has a built-in 2-track recorder, but I wouldn't use it solely for your main recorder because you might encounter a situation where you would want AND need to isolate all your sources for post-production purposes. If this is the only absolute "recorder" you could bring, then consider ponying up an add'l wireless hop so that your cam could also get something as a backup.


Cardiod is a must.
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Omnis work just as well. More careful thought into wiring your talents when using cardioids. Proper lav techniques your sound man must have.


Thanks for sharing your smarts =)
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Ditto.
 
I STRONGLY suggest you reconsider your plan for using cardioid lavs. Cardioids are intended for sound reinforcment situations where feedback control is a paramount consideration. Their downside is that they require a lot of attention to head movement on the part of the wearer because each movement, turn, or glance in a different direction will cause a change in the audio quality as they go on or off mic. In a lecture situation where the wearer is always looking in the same general direction it's not too big a problem but in an interview or dramatic dialog situation it doesn't usually work out very well. That's why the near universal norm for broadcast and film or video recording is to use an omni lav head.
 
The G3's are OK units. but you might want to look at buying some used lectro 200 series units. they usually are running around 2x that of a G3 kit, but the sound quality is leaps ahead of the G3. and look at getting sanken cos11 or country b3 or b6 mics.

for a sound guy, the lectrosonics stuff is a huge improvement for working out of bag. we can see the audio levels, the signal strength, the battery life of the transmitter and its a hell of a lot easier to find open wireless frequencies, not to mention true diversity(the g3's used the outgoing xlr cable as its "diversity"). and the stuff is built like a tank.

but if anything, get the G3 kits and upgrade the mics, thats the least you could do.
 
So far I've been pleased with my two G3s with Tram TR-50s and Senn. MKE2s

What I like about the G3s:
Price
frequency agile
diversity
Tough

What I don't like compared to the Lectros:

Audio signal a little more compressed
all meters on side of rx rather than on top for quick checks.
no way to power the rxs externally
 
Personally, I really like my senn., I think they can do a bit more than the lectro. However, as a wireless mic the lectro are much better.

My opinion is if you can afford the lectro, buy the lectro. If you can't, buy the senn. Both are good units, and you can get the job done with both.
 
gpforet said:
So far I've been pleased with my two G3s with Tram TR-50s and Senn. MKE2s

What I don't like compared to the Lectros:

all meters on side of rx rather than on top for quick checks.
no way to power the rxs externally
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if you're working out of a bag you want the meters on top of the gear, and if they're working with a 552, chances are they are going to be bag based. and yes you can power the receivers externally, there are DC ports beside the xlr ports on the bottom of the units requiring 10-14v(i think its 14, maybe someone can correct me?). i power my lectros from my PSC mixer's built in BDS via its NP1 battery.
 
Are you suggesting the Lectro 100s or 400s? the 100s dont seem to have the on-the-top levels monitoring, but since i'm only using one channel to record them usually (getting backup audio on the other channel with the NTG-3) we can see the levels on the 552. I am shooting with a 7d and 550d, both using rode videomics to get scratch track, no master audio is being recorded on them. Might look into getting a transmitter from bag to camera and record the 552 audio on the 552 AND cameras, but with AEG, that isnt going to happen. (Come on magiclantern... or Canon)

The 100s are well inside my price range, so they seem like a good option, if we think they are $400 better than the Sennies. I am happy with the cardiod mics on the sennies since they do great background isolation. I keep hearing that omnis are better, but the people i'm working with are usually in the middle of doing tasks, so the ambiance seems like a big problem, bigger than the risk of them going a bit quieter if they turn their heads a lot (hasn't been an issue yet!)

I wont rule out omnis, though. Just want to make sure they are best, seeing as I am ALSO micing with the boom, which delivers great audio but with noticeable ambiance. The reason I like my sennies right now is they don't.

Thanks so much for the advice so far. I will look into the Lectro 100s for the time being, while i gather more intel from you genius peoples.
 
p.s. i am currently only needing one wireless unit. I also know the 2-track recording of the 552 is a bit limiting with that, but i can't afford a $6000 5-channel recorder ATM. Ideally, I would buy the 788 and 4 Lectro 400s, but that isn't in the cards at the moment... my sound man is part of my film crew, not a free-lancer. He is not a sound professional, but he has been using the sennies, NTG-3 and 552 with me for about a year now, so he is a competent recorder, but I will admit that there is room for improvement.

I am not concerned at this time with LAVing more than one subject at this time. Due to the limits of 2-track recording, I am making due with the shotgun for multiple people and just want the one LAV for important interviews (like the Mayor of Kansas City) and the 'main' subjects of the film that are nearly always just a single person at a time.

$16,000 i have not =(
 
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suicdekng said:
p.s. i am currently only needing one wireless unit. I also know the 2-track recording of the 552 is a bit limiting with that, but i can't afford a $6000 5-channel recorder ATM. Ideally, I would buy the 788 and 4 Lectro 400s, but that isn't in the cards at the moment... my sound man is part of my film crew, not a free-lancer. He is not a sound professional, but he has been using the sennies, NTG-3 and 552 with me for about a year now, so he is a competent recorder, but I will admit that there is room for improvement.

I am not concerned at this time with LAVing more than one subject at this time. Due to the limits of 2-track recording, I am making due with the shotgun for multiple people and just want the one LAV for important interviews (like the Mayor of Kansas City) and the 'main' subjects of the film that are nearly always just a single person at a time.

$16,000 i have not =(
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Understood.

Mixing all sources onto a track was and still is a regular duty done on set when post doesn't have the time to deal with mult mics. Just keep your boom mics and lav mics separate.

Forget the Lectro100's and go straight to a used 2xx. Try to find a 211 if possible for several advantages ie. front-end tracking, freq scan, and removable antennas. The 201 is the only 2xx series receiver that doesn't have removable antennas, up to you to decide if this is important ( I think so).

Next are the 200 and 205. No LCD window for controls, all on the bottom. No internal powering source, only ext.

Finally the 210 and 211. 210 has no LCD window with all controls except for level potentiometer on the bottom. Internal battery requires 4 AA. 211 has LCD window and RF scan. Internal batteries are 2x 9V. Front-end tracking on both units are close and top for 2xx series.

All these units could range from $800-$1500 incl/excl lavalier, Tx, wallwart, and/or more stuff.
 
Wow. That was a lot of info. Looks like you know your lectros. It seems that the 200s are no longer made, discontinued in 2007 to be replaced by the now discontinued 450s... Not going to lie, the idea of buying 4+ year old wireless LAVs for a grand does not set well with me. Especially since no one locally is selling anything even like them. Ebay is coming up short and so are the forums here.

I appreciate the ability to buy used gear when possible, but with no way to test and no solid guarantee, I just can't do it. It looks like I'm going to have to get the 100s or stick with the sennheisers at this rate. =(

$4,000 for the 400s is clearly out of the question, too.

Thanks for the help so far everyone, but untested used LAVs doesn't seem safe, especially knowing how some people abuse their kit.
 
Know what you mean, I felt the same when I started.

Just stick with a Sennheiser G3 100 series wireless set. If you're not far from your subjects, which is more likely in this case, the G3 would be fine. If you have a little extra wiggle room left, try getting a separate lav mic such as a Countryman EMW (the least inexpensive pro mic I would get, ~$160, look around).
 
i buy all most all of my sound gear used, when and if i can. i just bought a used 211 unit for $1300(no mic tho). these things are built like a tank. you could hammer a nail with it. and lectrosonics will still service them. i can put you in touch with a guy in FLA who has 3 block 21 units for sale. i was going to buy one of his but due to my budget constraints i couldn't. you can also look at sites like trew audio, tai audio, gotham sound, etc... and they have used listings on their pages. as far as abuse, sound guys are on another level with their gear. camera dudes are known for being rough, soundies, we're anal and meticulous. its what it takes to do this job. so obvious its going to carry over to how we manage our equipment. but if you don't feel like dealing with used, then you don't, some people don't want to deal with it. but its a great way to get higher end equipment and a lower cost.
 
manglerBMX said:
i buy all most all of my sound gear used, when and if i can. i just bought a used 211 unit for $1300(no mic tho). these things are built like a tank. you could hammer a nail with it. and lectrosonics will still service them. i can put you in touch with a guy in FLA who has 3 block 21 units for sale. i was going to buy one of his but due to my budget constraints i couldn't. you can also look at sites like trew audio, tai audio, gotham sound, etc... and they have used listings on their pages. as far as abuse, sound guys are on another level with their gear. camera dudes are known for being rough, soundies, we're anal and meticulous. its what it takes to do this job. so obvious its going to carry over to how we manage our equipment. but if you don't feel like dealing with used, then you don't, some people don't want to deal with it. but its a great way to get higher end equipment and a lower cost.
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i appreciate the offer. I would be willing to get a nice set of the 200s, but as far as I have read the 21 block is now illegal and will soon be filled, therefore making the 200s useless? I've seen pictures of the 200s and they do look like they aren't screwing around. If I can use the 200s for another 2 years, it seems worth it. If not, it really doesn't.
 
suicdekng said:
i appreciate the offer. I would be willing to get a nice set of the 200s, but as far as I have read the 21 block is now illegal and will soon be filled, therefore making the 200s useless? I've seen pictures of the 200s and they do look like they aren't screwing around. If I can use the 200s for another 2 years, it seems worth it. If not, it really doesn't.
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Block 21 (~ 537MHz-563MHz) won't be happening anytime soon, give or take 3-5 years really. Same thing happened with the 700MHz. Gov were pushing it starting around 04'-05', wanted 2009 but majority of the public weren't ready, post-poned till 2010 and it's now in effect. People still using their units until the wireless gods are after them...
 
sennies over the lectro 100s? Am i getting a '100s aren't worth it' vibe from you all? The mic looks good and the build looks good, but I have no idea.

I'm game to look into some 200s if they are sub $1500. I cant see going over that for used gear that might be useless at any moment. Granted, it'll probably be 2 years. But since they ARE illegal, i worry that the company wont fix em or i cant get parts.
 
I should have worded more precisely regarding the Lectro 100/200 and Senn G3.

Let's take a look at the Lectro 100 series which consists of a UCR100 receiver and a LMa trasnmitter, their bottom of the line series. Total retail price for NEW is going to be around the ballpark of $1100 w/o a lavalier. Add your choice of lavalier ontop of this $1100 and a used 2xx starts to make more sense in terms of features and quality. This is why we mentioned about the 2xx before the 100 from Lectro because there are good offers out in the wild. Regardless of their discontinuation of the 2xx series, Lectrosonics will service these at no or some add'l cost. They definitely stand behind their products. Since Lectrosonics are a smaller company, support will always be there. Very similar to a mom and pop store. One good advantage is Lectrosonic's products have high to close resale values. Buy something used at "C" price and most likely than not you'll sell it at or near your "C" price.

The Sennheiser G3 112/122, depending on which one you go, comes out to $600 at most places incl. a stock lav. This is 1/2 the price of a NEW Lectro 100 set. Even when a new lavalier is accounted for, the price of the Lectro 100 is near 2x the cost. Sound quality wise the Lectro wins by a finger or two. The G3's are diversity, scannable RF, levels, etc. This is why many folks in all industry say these are the best value wireless packs. Almost any retailer carries these without having to special order because they're used so frequenctly, not so for Lectrosonics. Remember, Lectrosonics are marketed more to a specialized part of the industry and doesn't nearly produce as many units compared to Sennheiser. Some tradeoff, but both are well recognized by professionals. You can mix and match G3 series just like Lectros, nothing new. When I look at the big picture between G3 100's and Lectro 100's, I'll go straight for the G3's because of their price. Slight edge for Lectros, but not for 2x the price.

Anything in the "C" range for Sennheisers and Blocks 27-29 for Lectrosonics are illegal in the states. Block 27 still has several legal frequencies to be used by Part 74 users, but it's illegal for retailers to sell them whether they are new or used. I believe this was what you're referring.

My point, and so are others, is to go for G3 112/122 or look straight into a used 2xx series preferrably a 201/211 for scanning and easier control, or the 210/211 for front-end tracking. 200 and 205 are okay, but I'll stick to the other units if an offer arises.
 
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