Need help with "Crossing the Line": Pics Included

K

Kholi

Section Moderator
So okay. I think I AM crossing the line here, but I want to make sure so I don't cheat myself out of the freedom to shoot action from a different angle.

Circles simulate the humans involved. The Red circle is the main focal point, or, the important human.

1:
Shooting action from this angle to begin with. Covering the wall in the background with actors in foreground and possibly a tree.
1184710630.jpg


2:
I want to move to the wall and shoot action so that a certain action can be seen clearly. As not to have it lost in composition. And I think it'd look better from this side. Also, there's more than one shot that I want to get from this angle.
1184710664.jpg



Have I crossed the line here?
 
Ah dang. Maybe I can get by just shooting down the middle of the invisible line and still see what I need to see.

I'll get it from the wall just in case either way.
Ty
 
If it's just one action, can't you just play it towards the camera in the original position?
 
TC said:
If it's just one action, can't you just play it towards the camera in the original position?
Click to expand...

It's two actions, actually. There's one where visual reference needs to be strong to make a connection from one person to another by an object, and then the next shot from a similar angle to make a direct person-to-person connection when an "attack" is posed.

I think if breaking the 180 is what I'm doing here, I'll just ease off to the side and try to get it while staying on the line.

The fact that there are two opposing groups here needs to remain, IMO. Breaking the line actually might confuse offense and defense.
 
Going with Brandon's advice, you could have the main actor turn around to look behind himself and make the cut on the action (either turning away or turning back) which would allow you to establish a new line.

Also, you can use a Steadicam or dolly move to help you establish a new line.
 
How does establishing a new line work, Terry? I'm a total newb, so forgive me.

Once you establish it, do you shoot from that side of the line from there on out or do you re-establish again to move over the 180?
 
If you're on one side of your established line and you actually show the change in the line (ie a camera move that breaks the line) then you have effectively created a new line.
 
Hey Kholi !

I think crossing the line for 'any reason whatsoever' is a dangerous proposition.

There are reasons to follow the rule and doing it without calculation is risky; it can create disorientation on your audience (Which it has been used to do)

I'd consider moving the camera down the line into the position you want it at to physically establish you are crossing the line.

Are the heads looking at each other ? Talking ?

What is the motivation behind your shot selection ? Can you describe in further detail with the circles what is happening ?

It is great that you are considering motivation behind your decisions and not just shooting without thought.

(Disclaimer: First post since February)

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Hey Larry. I totally forgot about that.
 
He lives!!! :) (just don't ask how the fitness program is going ... cause it "went")


I agree with what John said. While an argument could probably be made for crossing the line, in general I feel this is an important rule. Especially since it helps ground us, the audience, in the world you are creating.

That's not to say you can't move the line, but don't just arbitrarily cross it without some reference to help us, the audience, establish where the POV has moved to.

Just my $0.01 9/10 (nope, still can't afford that other $0.00 1/10 ... I am a writer after all :grin: )
 
HA HA! Sorry... but for any quick cutting action piece, I think crossing the line is appropriate, in fact, sometimes a better choice.
 
You're right Brandon, but you're also looking at doing it intentionally - when you use it to throw off the perspective, you disorient the viewer and confuse them for a moment.

This is great for quick action pieces, especially with lots of movement, because generally the editor uses cuts to tell from where the action is coming from. When they cut across the line, then the instant of confusion makes it seem like the action is coming from an unexpected direction, which is what you want to come across when you do it.

But if you show a guy walking towards a toilet then cut to the other side of the line, then the audience gets confused and sort of asks "why?" and if you don't give a reason for it, then it gets annoying.
 
James Cameron mentions something about this on the Aliens commentary; whereas newer directors do not cover acton properly; it's just coverage shots editied together.

I have to agree. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to many of the films out there in terms of visual langauge in action sequences. Just a rapid cut after cut of stuff going on
 
I know I may get ripped for saying this, but some of THE BEST action stuff I've ever seen cut is in Once Upon a Time in Mexico. Go watch the action scenes in that movie. Fabulous!
 
John_Hudson said:
Hey Kholi !

I think crossing the line for 'any reason whatsoever' is a dangerous proposition.

There are reasons to follow the rule and doing it without calculation is risky; it can create disorientation on your audience (Which it has been used to do)

I'd consider moving the camera down the line into the position you want it at to physically establish you are crossing the line.

Are the heads looking at each other ? Talking ?

What is the motivation behind your shot selection ? Can you describe in further detail with the circles what is happening ?

It is great that you are considering motivation behind your decisions and not just shooting without thought.

(Disclaimer: First post since February)

-
-

Hey Larry. I totally forgot about that.
Click to expand...

Whoa dang where'd you come from? Lol. Good to see ya back and offerin' up the advice!

The connection between the two bodies, or actors is non-verbal. There's a "sacred object" being lobbed to the side during this specific shot and I want to connect it to the receiving hands. Even if it's going to be cut right before the catch, drawing the line is what I really want to accomplish.


In a bit of detail:

The three set of circles on the right are a group of defenders with a "sacred object" that the other three want to get ahold of.

The Red circle is going to become the new "guardian" of the object once the drama begins. So, the circle to his right will have to lob this "sacred object" to the red circle while the opposition closes in strong and hard.

So, my thought is that I won't cross the line at all, but merely move in for a wide and tight to connect the toss for this specific shot.

The real motivation is extracting the new "Guardian" from those around him who are actually more suited to handle the guarding of said sacred object. He's literally being handed what he can't handle.

Thanks to everyone for advice! j00 guys rock.
 
Kholi are all the circles actors?
I would suggest you draw on a storyboard to see how it stands cut by cut.
 
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