Need help, trying to do BASIC lighting

M

MechSpike

Active member
Okay, so I bought a few scoop lamps a couple years back to do some basic lighting with, El Mariachi style. When I first got them I just used regular light bulbs. (I'm assuming about 75-11w) That was about 3 years ago so I have no idea. I haven't lit any scenes since I first used those and I'm trying to get back in so here is my problem...

I need just a BASIC guerilla lighting set up. I have 3 scoop lamps and I saw that they support Type 'A' 100w light bulbs. This is obviously not quite bright enough. So first I'd like to ask is there ANYTHING I could buy that is cheap from maybe Lowes or Home Depot that would assist me greatly? I was looking at these light bulbs...

http://www.buylighting.com/55-Watt-Compact-Fluorescent-5000K-Full-Spectrum-p/fe-us-55w-50k.htm

Since they use less power and I thought I could maybe use them in the scoop lamps. Would this work? Is this a good idea? Would it looks any good?

I also thought about buying a china ball just to get a little more power, like a 250w light bulb in a 30 inch china ball.

Any suggestions?? I'm really new to lighting and I don't have a lot of money to spend, so sending me to any of the beginner lighting stuff is just futile. I need really cheap suggestions just for 2 or 3 lights, a BASIC set up. I eventually plan on upgrading but for right now this will have to do. Any suggestions?
 
Can anyone help, please? :/ I heard scoop lamps can go up to 200 watt bulbs, but mine only say 100 watt and I don't want to cause a fire or anything. I just don't know much about what I'm able to do with lamps like that.
 
Have you tried it with 100 watts? Does it work with your camera? Those lightbulbs may work, they say they're equivalent to 250 watt lightbulbs, but unless I'm mistaken, the 5000k is referring to color temp, which is something you have to consider when lighting your scene.

The china ball with 250 watts is always good for fill.

If nothing else works, the zero budget film maker's best bet are worklights. About 30 bucks at your hardware store, depending on the wattage. Take off the grate, try and diffuse them somehow (not with anything too close to them though, or else you'll create a fire), and set them up in three point lighting. With a China Ball thrown into the mix you can help soften the light.

Just watch those color temps.

If you don't know anything about color temps, it's easy to look up and simple to understand.
 
I haven't tried them yet because I wanted to ask here if they would even work. My point is, since they run at a lower voltage then regular incandescent bulbs wouldn't that mean they wouldn't burn as hot? I don't know a lot about color temperature but I noticed that one had a high temperature. I was just linking that bulb as an example of the type I would buy. If I understand correctly you want all your lights to have the same temperature? Or about the same temperature? Anyway, I might as well just buy those work lamps. Should I buy just one or two? If I use one of those and a china ball as fill then what about the background light? I do have a small scoop lamp that supports a 50 watt bulb, maybe I can pop one of those compact fluorescent ones in there and maybe get 100-150 watts out of it. Like I said, I just don't know what the scoop lamps are capable of...
 
You have them ? Try it.

They will work if not putting out the mad amount of light you need; but they will work.

Get the lights out and try them. Use Foil to sculpt the light.
 
MechSpike said:
I haven't tried them yet because I wanted to ask here if they would even work. My point is, since they run at a lower voltage then regular incandescent bulbs wouldn't that mean they wouldn't burn as hot? I don't know a lot about color temperature but I noticed that one had a high temperature. I was just linking that bulb as an example of the type I would buy. If I understand correctly you want all your lights to have the same temperature? Or about the same temperature? Anyway, I might as well just buy those work lamps. Should I buy just one or two? If I use one of those and a china ball as fill then what about the background light? I do have a small scoop lamp that supports a 50 watt bulb, maybe I can pop one of those compact fluorescent ones in there and maybe get 100-150 watts out of it. Like I said, I just don't know what the scoop lamps are capable of...
Click to expand...

Okay, well temperature I suggest you look up. Simply put, every type of light source has a different color (measured in Kelvin because of the color iron gives off at that temperature). It doesn't mean it's hot or cold. For example, Sun is at about 5600K (close to the lightbulb you showed us at 5000k) which gives a blueish tint. Incedescent (lightbulbs with a filament) are orange, halogen are yellow, flourescent are green/blue, etc... which is why you never mix color temps. We never really see or pay attention to this light because our eyes adjust a bit, but compare indoor lights to a window, especially on cam, and you'll see it. It's why we white balance, and why people use filters.

So if you mix that 5000K light bulb with something incandescent, it's going to show, depending on which light source you white balance to.

If you're talking about putting in something of 50-100 watts, I wouldn't use it, especially for a backlight. A fill light something like 100-150 would work. 200 or more, then sure. If that bulb is as bright as a 250watt bulb, perfect. BUT, keep in mind the color temp is off.

But first, TRY IT.

Why not just use another worklight for the back? You can select between 150, 250, and 500 watts for worklights. Just keep in mind they're ugly unless you diffuse them, and keep any form of diffusion or gels away from the light. You can literally cook an egg on them. Seen it done.
 
I would say the 55w bulb you posted would put out around the equivalent of between a 150w and 250w tungsten light behind diffusion. They won't do a lot for you during the day outside but can work fine inside.

On the scoop lamps, there are generally two kinds. There are the smaller ones which are rated to 100w. Then there are a bit larger kind that are generally rated to 200w (or so). The 55w bulb there would draw 55w and will be fine in a 100w scoop lamp which will take up to 100w. If you put a 100w fluorescent bulb in there, it won't generate the same heat that a 100w incandescent bulb will so its even safer but the bulb will likely poke out of the reflector quite a ways as it will be very long. Also, a 100w fluorescent bulb will put out about 3 to 4 times the equivalent light of a tungsten type without drawing so much power. When we say equivalent though, we mean tungsten in a softbox or behind diffusion. What this means is that all soft light is watered down such that it doesn't have the throw of a regular bare bulb. Fluorescent bulbs are always soft and incandescent bulbs are natively "hard" and have a longer throw. Put diffusion on the incandescent bulb and its just as soft as the flo bulb and also loses its throw.

The other thing to be aware of is that the smaller wattage flo bulbs all have a medium (edison or E26 common household type) type of base (base is what we call how the lamp connects to a socket--edison type is a screw on). The larger wattage, from about 105w up to 250w flo bulbs will be "mogul" (E39/E40 type) or a larger version and will therefore require a different kind of socket in a scoop or whatever fixture you use.

I've been recommending China balls for years using the larger fluorescent bulbs like a 200w (equivalent of around 600w to 700w tungsten softbox). That will be completely safe to operate and you shouldn't have any problems especially with a 30" type china ball. In general, the larger the ball, the more the internal heat it will handle.
 
Wow! Overload of info! Haha! Thanks for all the responses...okay so I'm still a bit stuck on what to get. I'm now wondering if I should just buy a couple of those bulbs and use the scoop lights...I would buy the work lamps but you said they need diffused but to keep away any gels or diffusers, so how would I diffuse it? Also, you mentioned tin foil, how would I go about using tin foil to light stuff? Wrap it around the light and shape it into the mold I want? All these bulb names are confusing but I sort of am following. I know incandescent is the regular light bulbs in a house, but specifics on the other are vague. Although, Cool Lights, you answered a huge question of mine. Which was basically will my scoop lamps work with the lower wattage bulbs. Plus what exactly is a soft box? I was planning originally on just buying a couple of those bulbs I posted (or variations of them) and then getting some gels/diffusers and placing them in front. Then get a china ball as an extra light. Would this work ok? Or would it be a better choice for the work lamps? I don't have the money to just drop on work lamps and then find out they are terrible to work with....and it seems like it would be cheaper just to get a couple bulbs and bigger scoops as Cool Lights mentioned. I found the ones that support 200w bulbs on lowes.com
 
Jon Starr said:
You can literally cook an egg on them. Seen it done.
Click to expand...

You mean you actually saw someone cook an egg on one of those lights?

On my last shoot I had a guy who normally does stage lighting as my gaffer. We completely burned through four gels mounted too close to 500w tungsten halogen worklights before he noticed they were gone.

Asian Ideas has good prices on all sizes of chinaballs and they ship quickly. I bought some laterns with their 11 ft light kits and they're rated to 600w, for only $7 each. I find myself using the light kit without the lantern in small areas on set all the time, usually with a 25-40w bulb. I usually use 200-300w when they're in the lantern.

Sometimes I feel a little amateur when I'm on set lighting with standard light bulbs, but they're cheap and they make it easy to work with existing installations. I probably have 40 different bulbs for any application. I wish I could get something like CoolLights' high-output CFLs in an Edison base so I didn't have to worry about lighting things on fire all the time. A daylight option would be great, too. Maybe something like one of these monsters: http://www.globalsourcesdirect.com/servlet/the-4475/200W-fdsh-250W-Fluorescent-Grow-Light/Detail


That light first linked to is less bright than a standard 200w incandescent.
 
Unfortunately (for some reason) the decision was made somewhere along the way to make about 100w the last size in CFLs to use a medium edison base. I don't know of an electrical reason you couldn't run a 200w bulb with an edison base but I think it may have been more of a "mechanical" decision based on the fact that the bulb is somewhat bulky and a bit more heavy than your average so they probably thought the bulb merited the heavier duty mogul base for weight support reasons alone. Another option there is to get a mogul to edison adapter like this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/138136-REG/Photoflex_FVSKT_Mogul_to_E_27_Lamp.html#

That would easily allow you to run our mogul based bulb in your edison socket. Hope this helped.
 
So in all of your opinions, what do you think is better, buying a work lamp and using it with a china ball? Or buying the larger sized scoop lamps and getting a couple of those compact bulbs that don't run as hot and also using a china lamp as well. If diffusers and gels burn like wild fire on the work lamps then would they be easier to use with the scoops if I could rig them up in front of them? I thought the gels were supposed to withstand high heat anyway? If I get the work lamp, I would want to diffuse it but if diffusers just burn what would I do? I don't know if I would have the money or resources to get a reflector. I am thinking maybe the larger scoop lamps might work best, or would I benefit from the extra watts of light from the work lamps? Anyone?
 
When we say work light we mean the 250w-500w tungsten halogen style like this:
wolo-illume2.jpg


I wouldn't try to use a china ball with that. They work really well as "brute force" lights bounced off walls, and as lights for architecture and trees outside at night. They tend to be 2800-3050k, so they will look orange in most circumstances. You can get them on stands as well, but usually they only go up to about 6ft, which can be frustrating.

I have rigged up a diffusion frame with parts from wire coathangers and clothespins (C-47s). That way you can get some air between the diffusion and the light. Then I realized that Tuff Spun can take the heat even clamped right on the light, plus you can use it forever, even if you wad it up in your pocket. It also won't make noise if you have wind. If you were really cheap, you could take that white fibrous fabric that's stapled underneath matresses and couches and use that. Some use black spun now, but you want the old white stuff. It's practically the same thing. If you see a sofa on the side of the road, maybe you can save yourself a few bucks. :)

For a reflector, try using foam core like you can get at an office supply store. You can cover one side with crinkled aluminum foil or silver paint. Another good alternative is an in-car sunshade with a silvered side.

I'd love to try an edison adapter and one of the Cool Lights CFLs, but doesn't that adapter go the wrong way?
 
Okay thanks, I think I'm leaning toward just getting the bigger sized scoop lamp and trying to get 200 watts into it or more and a china ball as well. Like I said, I hardly know anything about lighting...I know basic stuff like 3 point lighting but a lot of what you are saying is going over my head haha. Do you think one china ball and two large scoop lamps with 200+w bulbs would work out alright?
 
That's a start. It would certainly be enough light for some portrait work. A fourth light as an option for backgrounds is always nice. The more nice tools you have, the easier it is to work.
 
Okay, awesome...so if I am filming a scene what wattage of bulbs should I go for? 200 watt for the key? Or more? What about the fill? I was going to do 250 watt china ball for fill...I just don't know what wattage is standard or what is too little/much etc. This bulb would work perfect I would think...

http://www.buylighting.com/55-Watt-Compact-Fluorescent-2700K-Warm-White-p/fe-us-55w-27k.htm

It is a 250w and it only uses 100 watts of power so they will fit nice with the scoop lamps. Also, can anyone link me to some diffusers/gels that I could maybe buy. I can't seem to find any good ones.
 
ProfessorU said:
I'd love to try an edison adapter and one of the Cool Lights CFLs, but doesn't that adapter go the wrong way?
Click to expand...

I thought it was right. Should be a mogul female (receptacle for the bulb) and an edison male (to go to your fixture). In any case, those kinds of adapters are available elsewhere and it seems like a product we should carry at some point too...
 
MechSpike said:
This bulb would work perfect I would think...

http://www.buylighting.com/55-Watt-Compact-Fluorescent-2700K-Warm-White-p/fe-us-55w-27k.htm

It is a 250w and it only uses 100 watts of power so they will fit nice with the scoop lamps. Also, can anyone link me to some diffusers/gels that I could maybe buy. I can't seem to find any good ones.
Click to expand...

No, thats the same bulb you posted earlier. Draws 55w and puts out equivalent of 250w (or so, but I think realistically, its more like a 150w to 200w). If you really want a 100w which probably puts out more like 300 to 400w worth of soft light, try this one instead:


http://www.buylighting.com/z-100-Watt-Compact-Fluorescent-2700K-Warm-White-p/m35844.htm

But, it is a mogul base so must use an adapter like I showed earlier to adapt to an Edison type base or find a fixture with a mogul (E39) type larger base.
 
Last edited:
MechSpike said:
PS I really wanted to get barn doors for my scoops, would these work or no?

http://www.coollights.biz/clbd4-halogen-worklight-barndoor-p-36.html
Click to expand...

Yes they would. Did you see the video showing how to put them on?

http://www.coollights.biz/wordpress/archives/21

Its about a 20m to 40m process depending upon how organized you are and whether you have all the tools necessary. The kit includes all the parts you need but in the case of attaching them to scoops, I would recommend attaching the barndoors to the scoop with bolts rather than rivets. The metal is just too soft for rivets to stay for a long time.
 
Wow that's awesome! Thanks a lot! Would it be possible to try a bulb cheaper than the one you posted. I don't think I can spend $60 per bulb. Eventually I would be able to do this but I only have about 2 weeks to get this all ready to go, and this is a very small thing I'm doing for my church. I just need something basic...wouldn't this bulb be okay for me to use?

http://www.buylighting.com/55-Watt-Compact-Fluorescent-2700K-Warm-White-p/fe-us-55w-27k.htm

It's 2700k temperature is different from the one I posted earlier that was 5000k. Even though it's only going to give me about 200 watts realistically that is better than my 100 watt scoop lamps I have now. If this won't work very well just tell me, and I will try to figure out a way to get the $60 bulbs.

PS Would this work better?

http://www.buylighting.com/45-Watt-PAR38-Halogen-Flood-p/s14588.htm

I don't know how lumens are measured but it seems to be another type of bulb I could use...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top