Chris Light
Veteran
slow motion....Give one of your characters a stutter?
especially if the character is conducting a bank transaction or something.
Need advice on how to make my script longer
- Thread starter Zblock
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especially if the character is conducting a bank transaction or something.
I accept you're the expert no question there - so I must be wrong - but especially if that was to be shot in one take with no edit cuts (as a sort of ensemble piece with people passing the action as the camera followed) I would expect that to be shown in the script as one location and that location would be INT. WHITE HOUSE CORRIDORS.
In the Director's shooting script - if it was NOT to shot as an ensemble piece - I would expect it would be shown as a series of scenes (a sequence) each with the suffix "CONTINUOUS"
Having said that I've never had anything picked up by HBO so what do I know.
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shutterspeedfilms
Well-known member
For some reason, my scripts have been falling into this category lately. Maybe it's because I've been trying to write them as no-frills, micro-budget-ready flicks. I have one at 63 pages right now. I don't feel comfortable presenting it for production until it's 90 pages.
Then again, wasn't Behind the Green Door's running time 65 minutes? :laugh:
Then again, wasn't Behind the Green Door's running time 65 minutes? :laugh:
Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
I think Lake Placid had end credits roll at about 72 minutes give or take; subtract opening titles, voila! Although if I were filming an indie I would prefer a 100 page script so that during editing and cutting of bad needless scenes i could have room to play with. A 65-70 page script means no room for error, nothing to cut.
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
lol
lol
Haha sorry I have to strongly disagree with that. Bad scenes should be cut well before you ever step on a set! You don't write a 100 page script that's basically crappy and not ready to be shot, then expect to cut a bunch. The best control you have over any indie film is in the script stage. It has to be even better than a major blockbuster script, by far, because you don't have visual effects to cover a lousy story (ahem Transformers 2), and you don't probably have the budget for reshoots either.
The reason I'm pretty happy with my 83 pager is because it's very tight, very economical, there is no scene that's not necessary or doesn't move the plot forward. Even though it's a comedy, there aren't any scenes that are just purely funny, but accomplish nothing (which, great movie or not, let's face it The Hangover has a lot of). If I had any fluff in this 83 page script, though, you're right, I'd end up with a 70 minute film, which is not really sellable I don't think.
lol
Haha sorry I have to strongly disagree with that. Bad scenes should be cut well before you ever step on a set! You don't write a 100 page script that's basically crappy and not ready to be shot, then expect to cut a bunch. The best control you have over any indie film is in the script stage. It has to be even better than a major blockbuster script, by far, because you don't have visual effects to cover a lousy story (ahem Transformers 2), and you don't probably have the budget for reshoots either.
The reason I'm pretty happy with my 83 pager is because it's very tight, very economical, there is no scene that's not necessary or doesn't move the plot forward. Even though it's a comedy, there aren't any scenes that are just purely funny, but accomplish nothing (which, great movie or not, let's face it The Hangover has a lot of). If I had any fluff in this 83 page script, though, you're right, I'd end up with a 70 minute film, which is not really sellable I don't think.
If you purposely keep "extra stuff" that says that you are not only not very sure what works and why, or have no faith in casting process, but it also means that you are willingly wasting your production budget and lowering your quality when you already are supposed trying to ring every drop.
Spend more time casting, get a better DP, get out the writing room and shoot stuff to learn what it is that makes things work and what ruins them. Watch great movies and analyze more than the story alone.
A film is the sum of all it's parts, so nobody should deliberately "overdo" one part for fear of failing at others, you should build all parts so you can have a good film. In a similar scenario you'd get Transformers 2. Isn't art balance?
A 90 page script should easily allow to have a 90 minute film, even after cutting a scene or two that unfortunately failed for reasons out of your control.
Spend more time casting, get a better DP, get out the writing room and shoot stuff to learn what it is that makes things work and what ruins them. Watch great movies and analyze more than the story alone.
A film is the sum of all it's parts, so nobody should deliberately "overdo" one part for fear of failing at others, you should build all parts so you can have a good film. In a similar scenario you'd get Transformers 2. Isn't art balance?
A 90 page script should easily allow to have a 90 minute film, even after cutting a scene or two that unfortunately failed for reasons out of your control.
GoodLuck
Well-known member
I have also struggled with not having enough pages to be feature length on a script. I did some research and what I found was I was lacking descriptions. If you read most Hollywood scripts, they are full of paragraphs of descriptions of everything...what the people are wearing, what the location looks like, what is around in the room, etc. Part of me leaves a lot of that out because I write with the intention of shooting it and sometimes I'm not quite sure what that is because I'm busy focusing on dialogue and the story. So you might want to look at going back and adding more detailed descriptions. This is often stuff that will be shown throughout the movie and will take up time.
Another thing that I've noticed in some films I've watched, they often introduce a smaller conflicts/problem with a supporting character. As writers we often focus on the main characters, however in Hollywood films, there is often additional dialogue for supporting characters, the struggles they are facing, something random that goes wrong with them unrelated to the story. Like a friend of the main character complaining about their life.
Just two suggestions that might help, best of luck!
Another thing that I've noticed in some films I've watched, they often introduce a smaller conflicts/problem with a supporting character. As writers we often focus on the main characters, however in Hollywood films, there is often additional dialogue for supporting characters, the struggles they are facing, something random that goes wrong with them unrelated to the story. Like a friend of the main character complaining about their life.
Just two suggestions that might help, best of luck!
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GoodLuck
Well-known member
Well, I have to disagree on both points. I think you are always better off having more pages, more story. A lot of great films have extra scenes that are cut out later. I think you are better off if you can afford to shoot it, to shoot more so you have more to edit from in post and are choosing from the best to put in the final film versus struggling just to meet your feature length target. Even Woody Allen has pointed out that you don't always know how it will look until you see it in the end. One scene may play too long and boring, another may not work at all and need to be removed, putting you well under feature length.
On the second point, I disagree because it's often the extra stuff that doesn't necessarily move the script/story along but helps create the world the characters live in. The character with a smaller role who has their own set of problems, the random problem that occurs just because that's what ended up happening that day there. It's what adds life to your script and helps create a world.
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jc10182000
Well-known member
if you are doing a true feature film with the backing of a studio, it better be at least 90 pages. I have pitched to lionsgate, imagine and weinstein and they always ask how long it is... but if you are producing your indie movie i think it is fine to have it the length you want. It depends on what you are shooting for, a feature length or hoping to enter a short film festival.
I think one of the best things you can do is to read as many scripts as you can.
I think one of the best things you can do is to read as many scripts as you can.
filmman
Veteran
If you're presenting a screenplay for financing or distributor approval, it should be 120 page.
From 110 to 135 max is okay too. If it's 90 pages and the distributor says cut down or cut out such and such a scene, what do you do? You cut out 10 minutes and you end up with 80 minutes. So you say, so what there are short films like that too. Yes, and what the distributor pays you will be less. "It's a short film!" And he won't count the titles, or rather he will say, "and the titles are ten minutes!" even if they're not.
And when you give the distributor a 90 minute movie, he might ask you, "do you have any other scenes that you have shot?" You need those extra pages and you need to have a few possible variations. Most often the distributor will ask, "have you shot more action?" or "are there any more sex scenes?"
I know none of us like to hear those questions, but they will ask them, and this is the nature of the business.
If you're shooting your own feature film, I know one famous director who preferred feature film scripts to be 30 to 60 pages maximum. I think it was Stanley Kramer, but I don't really remember. Didn't he shoot The Secret of Santa Vittoria? Anthony Quinn, Anna Magnani & Giancarlo Gianini.
From 110 to 135 max is okay too. If it's 90 pages and the distributor says cut down or cut out such and such a scene, what do you do? You cut out 10 minutes and you end up with 80 minutes. So you say, so what there are short films like that too. Yes, and what the distributor pays you will be less. "It's a short film!" And he won't count the titles, or rather he will say, "and the titles are ten minutes!" even if they're not.
And when you give the distributor a 90 minute movie, he might ask you, "do you have any other scenes that you have shot?" You need those extra pages and you need to have a few possible variations. Most often the distributor will ask, "have you shot more action?" or "are there any more sex scenes?"
I know none of us like to hear those questions, but they will ask them, and this is the nature of the business.
If you're shooting your own feature film, I know one famous director who preferred feature film scripts to be 30 to 60 pages maximum. I think it was Stanley Kramer, but I don't really remember. Didn't he shoot The Secret of Santa Vittoria? Anthony Quinn, Anna Magnani & Giancarlo Gianini.
dougspice
Veteran
Randall and GoodLuck are right. You may think your 83 pages or 70 pages or whatever are perfect as they are but you need to always remember: the script is not the movie. When all is said and done, some scenes will play fast, some will play long, some will be unnecessary in the edit, new holes will be revealed. This is practically a guarantee. Your only safety net is having MORE material so that you have the option to pick and choose.
The feature I produced last year had a 92 page script. When we got into the edit bay, there were scenes that just didn't work because of performance or just didn't feel right. Other things got tightened up. The final film is 74 minutes – including credits. As filmmakers, that was acceptable. But as businessmen, it's only barely acceptable. At least one distributor turned us away without even looking at the film because they will not accept films shorter than 80 minutes.
I'm certainly not suggesting anyone add "filler" to their script. If you think your sub-length script is "perfect" as-is, chances are you're just too close to it. Get some critical eyes on it and know how to read between the lines of their feedback. Or just put it on a shelf for a while and come back to it fresh after a while. I have a script with similar problems – 87 pages long, and that's after I stretched it as far as I thought I could. "What can I do, this script is beat-perfect!" Well, guess what: after not thinking about it for a few months, and reading it again, I easily see half a dozen scenes that are lacking. Easy opportunities for character development and conflict exploration. Missed beats.
Basically, don't let your ego or your laziness be your own worst enemy in the writing process.
The feature I produced last year had a 92 page script. When we got into the edit bay, there were scenes that just didn't work because of performance or just didn't feel right. Other things got tightened up. The final film is 74 minutes – including credits. As filmmakers, that was acceptable. But as businessmen, it's only barely acceptable. At least one distributor turned us away without even looking at the film because they will not accept films shorter than 80 minutes.
I'm certainly not suggesting anyone add "filler" to their script. If you think your sub-length script is "perfect" as-is, chances are you're just too close to it. Get some critical eyes on it and know how to read between the lines of their feedback. Or just put it on a shelf for a while and come back to it fresh after a while. I have a script with similar problems – 87 pages long, and that's after I stretched it as far as I thought I could. "What can I do, this script is beat-perfect!" Well, guess what: after not thinking about it for a few months, and reading it again, I easily see half a dozen scenes that are lacking. Easy opportunities for character development and conflict exploration. Missed beats.
Basically, don't let your ego or your laziness be your own worst enemy in the writing process.
Blaine
Mr. Hollywood
Doug makes some great points. As much as we'd love to think our script is perfect as is, it is not a movie yet. Many things that seem great on the page turn out not working well after you shoot them. Performances may be horrible and you may not have the time, money or inclination (or actors) to reshoot.
Often what seemed so clear to us in the writing and development stage just isn't right in the editing bay. Some of this may be mitigated during pre-production but you just never know. Scenes end up getting cut for all kinds of reasons. It's hard to think of a movie that used every scene they shot. And it's not always because it wasn't a good scene.
Look at movie like Cast Away. We usually think of it as Tom Hanks and "Wilson." But it was about 115 pages long. Of course, it ran 143 minutes so, yes, no dialogue made for a longer movie.
When we talk about "white space", the biggest contributor to it is dialogue. If you 50 pages are made up of action blocks and not dialogue it will probably play longer, but you can't depend on using it all and even at that, I don't think you're going to double the page length.
Often what seemed so clear to us in the writing and development stage just isn't right in the editing bay. Some of this may be mitigated during pre-production but you just never know. Scenes end up getting cut for all kinds of reasons. It's hard to think of a movie that used every scene they shot. And it's not always because it wasn't a good scene.
Look at movie like Cast Away. We usually think of it as Tom Hanks and "Wilson." But it was about 115 pages long. Of course, it ran 143 minutes so, yes, no dialogue made for a longer movie.
When we talk about "white space", the biggest contributor to it is dialogue. If you 50 pages are made up of action blocks and not dialogue it will probably play longer, but you can't depend on using it all and even at that, I don't think you're going to double the page length.
jc10182000
Well-known member
plus, its very hard for a first time writer not be re-written by a more seasoned scribe. that's why almost every movie starts with "screenplay by" and not "Written By".
when I was dealing with weinstein, the producer told me, a lot of times the scripts they buy are junk but they like the core idea and have a writer in mind who will re-write it.
and dont make your first script that personal, close to your heart story about your grandmother who fell in love in a nazi war camp because as a first time writer you have no leverage
when I was dealing with weinstein, the producer told me, a lot of times the scripts they buy are junk but they like the core idea and have a writer in mind who will re-write it.
and dont make your first script that personal, close to your heart story about your grandmother who fell in love in a nazi war camp because as a first time writer you have no leverage
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
Nice
Nice
Well got re-write notes from people I sent the script to and there are definitely about 5-6 added scenes that will carry the film up to 90 pages, so that was probably fine sending it out at 84. I just had to get some feedback, and I got some great feedback, but now it's time to work hard on rewriting it... grr!
Nice
Well got re-write notes from people I sent the script to and there are definitely about 5-6 added scenes that will carry the film up to 90 pages, so that was probably fine sending it out at 84. I just had to get some feedback, and I got some great feedback, but now it's time to work hard on rewriting it... grr!
