Need advice on a project

T

Tlalconetl

Well-known member
Hello all! I'm new here although I've been reading many of the posts in this forum for the last week. I'm impressed with the depth of knowledge and advice offered on this forum. I've learned a great deal reading the threads.

Anyhow, I'd like to get some advice from you guys. Now, I hope I communicate this appropriately and avoid the fracas that ensued with that guy kosstheory.

I don't own a DVX. I've never used it but want to use one to shoot a script I wrote. Very low budget, BTW. About $10,000. I can't decide whether to buy the camcorder or rent it. Either way, I intend to get one, and practice with it for a month before shooting.

The movie I want to make has many classroom scenes, some crowd scenes of students milling around during their lunch break, and a few night scenes. I'd like to shoot it in 24p and edit on a G5 with Final Cut Pro HD.

Considering my budget, what do you recommned I use on the set, aside from the DVX camcorder?? Also, I 'd like to shoot in 16:9 but I know that will mean more equipment and I only have 10K to spend.

If you guys require more information from me before providing advice, please let me know. Thank you all for your time.

Victor
 
Re: Need advice on a project

First of all, do you have to pay for any sets? Actors? Crew? You need to budget that in there.

You also need to budget in accomodations for these people, ie feed them. So that eats up some of your budget right there.

What is your final output? DVD? Will people be watching it on 4:3 or 16:9 TVs? Or both? Will it be screened in a theatre?

What is the weather like?

Do you own ANYTHING yet? Do you have lights? Or are you starting completely from scratch.

That should get us going in the right direction. :)
 
Re: Need advice on a project

If you are going to practice for a month before the shoot, I'd buy the camera.  Where I live it's about 200 bucks a day to rent.  I'm sure you'd get a discount for a monthly rental, but even at half that you approach the price of the camera.  THen when you are done, you can either sell it and recoup most of your expense, or keep it (Which you will most likely do, because the more you use this puppy, the more you love it)  

I do think taking that time to get to know the camera is a wise thing to do.  I made the mistake of having mine only a few days before the scheduled shoot of a short.  There were many things I would have done differently had I known the camera better.  

I would also get Barry Green's book/DVD.

http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/dvxbook/

At 70 bucks, it's the best investment you can make in getting to know what your camera can do, and how to do it.  When you are done answering TC's questions, we'll be able to answer more of yours.
AS for Koss...well you already know that being nice gets you a long way around here.

Good Luck, and Welcome.
 
Re: Need advice on a project

No one's getting paid. Everyone's signing release forms. I'm feeding them for sure. But no professional catering. Decent food though. Limited crew. Three people.

Final output will be DVD/VHS. Probably 16:9 TVs.

Weather will be sunny, hot. During the summer. Probaly July and August.

I own nothing. No lights. No crane. No dolly. Not even DV tapes! I'm starting from scratch. Actually I do have two Canon minDV cameras, consumer ones. I've shot several shorts with them and edited on an imac with Final Cut Express. But I'm ready to move up a notch and shoot a true independent movie. I'm determined and committed!
 
Re: Need advice on a project

Great attitude. I'll throw out a few ideas to get the ball rolling.

16:9 TV's which means you'll want anamorphic (or in camera squeeze) therein lies the dilema. The lens is $840, a mattebox to accomidate the lens is $1,700. Or you can use the in camera squeeze mode. The resolution is better with the anamorphic lens, but that may not be practical for your budget.

Your shooting in sunny locations, so I would say you definitely need a mattebox, accompanied by some ND filters. A grad ND would be good too.

You'll need lights, that's a whole other headache that we can address later, once we learn a little bit more about the project.

I would suggest trying to get someone with audio equiptment and experience, but if that's simply not going to work, here is the bare minimum: A good mic, the cheapest I would go is the AT897. You'll need headphones to monitor the audio, I suggest the Sennheiser HD280's. A field mixer isn't necesary but it helps.

You'll need a good tripod with a fluid head and plenty of batteries (get the ones from this site.)

This is a highly subjective list, and I tried to keep it broad.
 
Re: Need advice on a project

YOu will get some differing opinion on squeeze vs. in-camera letterbox. Neither is true 16x9 (as I understand it). Each has it's advantges, but neither will give you what an anamorphic lens will. But you'll get a great picture regardless.

BTW, I did my first 2 shorts on a Canon zr-20. Moving to the DVX was a great choice because it's a very forgiving transition. If you choose to you can take it out of the box and point and shoot (much like a consumer camera), but there are a great number of manual options to imrove your shoot.

I agree with everything else TC said. You might want to spend a little time in the specific forums (Lighting, audio, etc) you cananswer a lot of your questions there. But feel free to ask for more help.
 
Re: Need advice on a project

OK. I think I should buy the camera and rent everything else. This movie is going to be very guerrilla, ala El Mariachi. There's one special effect I want to create though. It's a robotic moth. I plan to use real moths in some scenes but will need a crucial scene with a robotic moth. If I decide to digitize it in post what type of software do I need? Or would it be cheaper to physically make a moth that looks robotic?? As for lights, I haven't figured that out. I'm toying with the idea of making the movie black and white. That would mean special consideration with lighting, right?

Thanks for the feedback.
 
Re: Need advice on a project

Tlalconetl- take TC's and Jims advice, they know what their talking about. You might be able to get a decent lighting kit for about $1000 bucks. Or if you want to go ghetto you can use lights at wallmart or homedepot. And yes go ahead and buy yourself a DVX. Its a well worth investment.

Compositing program: Aftereffects,shake,combustion,commotion,boris red
3D programs: 3DS Max.XSI,maya,lightwave

They can be pricy, watch out.

Ight playa.
 
Re: Need advice on a project

I've been reading the lighting and audio sections. It's just tricky trying to figure out what my lighting needs are, especially since I have zero experience. BTW, what are ND filters and grad ND??
 
Re: Need advice on a project

just from my own experience, doing light is a very complex thing. Easiest is to find someone from a local light crew that could help you.
people working with light know all kinds of tricks and how to improvise. If your lucky they even have some basic gear and gels at home. So you might get around the home depot stuff.
 
Re: Need advice on a project

Yea, try to find somebody that knows about lighting. Pick up John Jackman's Lighting for Television and Video, it will help tremendously.

Okay, here's my take on the moth thing. Since you don't know what program you'll need to make it, I wil infer that you have no experience with 3D. So I say DEFINITELY get someone else to do it. Modeling and rigging (not to mention animating) something like that will take some skill, so try to get someone with experience. It's not insanely hard, but it should be left to someone skilled or it will look like crap.
 
Re: Need advice on a project

But PLEASE don't buy a mettebox for a 2 day shoot, rent it with the filters. It will cost you less than 50 bucks, and you'll be safe.
 
Re: Need advice on a project

ok everytime a question like this comes up my first response is to ask where are you located?

maybe there is a dvx user near you who would love to help...

that said, if you want to do more projects later, or if you can afford it without it killing you, buy the camera...

is your final project mainly aimed at tv and dvd's?

buy the Formatt matte box, its really affordable, get the polarizer filter, it is a must for sunny outdoors stuff.

use the squeeze mode which is built into the dvx-100a

i have the anamorphic adaptor, it is nice but it isn't absolutely needed, PLUS it makes the shot setup quite a bit more complicated!

for an inexperienced user the matte box could easily cause a LOT of unneccesary stress and even some out of focus shots!

keep it simple!!!

also, lighting is really tough, i have all the books but the best thing i have found is the newsletter from Walter Graff, he shows you a real shot that he setup for a paying customer and he shows you those shots and gives a little drawing that shows the light placement he used.

http://www.bluesky-web.com/newsletter.html

matthew
 
Re: Need advice on a project

"Keep it simple!" That's exactly my thinking. I'm in Glendale, CA. I do plan on renting most of the gear. The output will be DVD/vhs. Everyone says lighting is tricky, but I'm willing to learn and know I can learn it.

The moth effect is crucial to the story. But it doesn't really need to be a super clean CGI effect. When I saw the fly effect in the movie Girl(Boy) shot by those teenagers in Argentina, I knew I could do the moth. I just need the software. I figured Maya would be it.

Thanks again for the advice.
 
Re: Need advice on a project

Personally, I would go with Maya too. But there's plenty of lightwave folks on this forum... it's all quite subjective.

If your in Glendale you should DEFINITELY buy your gear from EVS, seeing as how they're located in Glendale and DVXusers get a discount.
 
Re: Need advice on a project

There's a Dreamworks Animation site in Glendale, so really, your surrounded by talented 3d artists. Just a thought.
 
Re: Need advice on a project

TS, Bluespider,
Wow. Thanks for the info. I'm glad I mentioned my location. Didn't know about EVS nor the Dreamworks in Glendale. Still, I'd like to learn the basics of 3d animation. See if I can generate the effect myself. I'm calling up EVS. Maybe they can sell me a DVX starter's Kit for under 5K. Muchas gracias!
 
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