Need advice for recording score for short film

M

marsupilami_4

Active member
Hello everyone!

I know this is a little bit off-topic but I thought I'd get more relevant answers posting here since the situation involves location sound equipment.

A friend of mine wants me to record the score for a short film he shot.
There's going to be a violin, an upright (acoustic) bass and a piano, all playing together simultaneously. I most likely won't have time to experiment before the actual recording session.


In terms of equipment I have an AKG SE300 hyper, a Sennheiser MKH416 shotgun, a couple Lectro's 210D with either a sanken cos11 or a sony ECM77 lavalier (it will depend on whether or not I buy the sanken before it happens), an SQN 4-channel mixer and a 2-channel digital audio interface to connect to my laptop. I will be using Logic Pro.

I know that this is far from optimal for music recording, but there's no budget whatsoever to rent anything else, let alone consider a recording studio, so that'll have to do.


Here's what I was thinking:
Track 1 for violin and bass using the 416 for the violin and a lav for the bass.
Track 2 for the piano using the SE300.

I already had a chance to experiment with the 416 on the violin and am happy with the results.
My main concerns are:
- will the lav do a good enough job with the upright bass, esp. considering it'll go through the lectro, which might chop off or distort some of the low end? (I don't have an adapter to plug a lav straight to the mixer yet)
- I don't know yet what kind of piano will be used, but do you think I'll be able to work around the SE300's directivity while being close enough to the piano that it doesn't sound too distant?

Alternatively I thought I could use the SE300 for the bass and a lav for the piano, the reasoning being that it might be easier to work with the lav's omni pattern.


I know that the best way to find out is to experiment with various configurations but I don't know how much time I'll have to play around, and a little bit of thinking beforehand will probably help me be more efficient.
So what do you think? Would you consider a different approach, and if yes which one?

Thank you!
Alexis
 
Why not record a group mix, then use that as playback thru headphones to the musician and record each instrument separately to a different track using your best mics for each track?
 
gpforet said:
Why not record a group mix, then use that as playback thru headphones to the musician and record each instrument separately to a different track using your best mics for each track?
Click to expand...
Thanks for your suggestion.
It would indeed be the scenario most likely to produce the best results in terms of sound quality and post-production flexibility. However I'm not sure the musicians would be comfortable with this approach, or there may not be enough time to record each part individually, so I'd rather be prepared for the "worst-case" scenario.
 
Beg or borrow a few more mics, find a small Behringer mixer, and do the best you can.

Truth is, there is not one area of filmmaking that is not harder or takes more time, than most anyone new can imagine.

This may be a way to stretch everyone involved.
 
Hi Alexis .. as the music producer/engineer you need to know, 1) exactly how long the film is, versus how much music is to be recorded 2) how proficient is the group and do they perform together regularly 3) are they playing to a written score 4) how much rehearsal will they have done before the recording.

The answers to these questions will tell you exactly how difficult your job is going to be, totally regardless of what the film producers will tell you.

No question the band will have to record as a group, to get an internal balance and conserve recording time. Attending some rehearsals is important to gain their confidence, meet the players and the music. Take a metronome to note the tempos and write them down. You have no idea how time can drift in the studio when everyone is under pressure so use the metronome again to set the correct tempo before EVERY take.

Your mic selection sounds Ok but the hyper might sound better on the violin, let the players hear a run through first. Record on your 2 track to mix later, the violin will probably be the lead so get good separation in your studio and put it on track 1, and the piano/bass balanced on track 2. Keep the bass level up, you can roll some of it out with eq later if needed.

If one violin part is very difficult for the player, you might record the rhythm balanced on track 2 then overdub the violin on track 1. Have headphones available.

Assuming the group is semi-pro, keep every single note they record so have enough storage available. Record the whole score in the order the musos feel most comfortable playing, and work out a recording timetable to get it all done on time. Musos need potty breaks and rest time too, usually during playbacks.

Rent mics .. never buy a very expensive mic for the one job. If the sound is not up to par for some reason, you'll hate that mic forever. Hope the piano is in good shape, if it sounds wonky, you might be able to use one at the local piano dealers place, give them a credit they love that. Hope this helps.

Cheers.
 
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Raster said:
Hi Alexis .. as the music producer/engineer you need to know, 1) exactly how long the film is, versus how much music is to be recorded 2) how proficient is the group and do they perform together regularly 3) are they playing to a written score 4) how much rehearsal will they have done before the recording.

The answers to these questions will tell you exactly how difficult your job is going to be, totally regardless of what the film producers will tell you.

No question the band will have to record as a group, to get an internal balance and conserve recording time. Attending some rehearsals is important to gain their confidence, meet the players and the music. Take a metronome to note the tempos and write them down. You have no idea how time can drift in the studio when everyone is under pressure so use the metronome again to set the correct tempo before EVERY take.

Your mic selection sounds Ok but the hyper might sound better on the violin, let the players hear a run through first. Record on your 2 track to mix later, the violin will probably be the lead so get good separation in your studio and put it on track 1, and the piano/bass balanced on track 2. Keep the bass level up, you can roll some of it out with eq later if needed.

If one violin part is very difficult for the player, you might record the rhythm balanced on track 2 then overdub the violin on track 1. Have headphones available.

Assuming the group is semi-pro, keep every single note they record so have enough storage available. Record the whole score in the order the musos feel most comfortable playing, and work out a recording timetable to get it all done on time. Musos need potty breaks and rest time too, usually during playbacks.

Rent mics .. never buy a very expensive mic for the one job. If the sound is not up to par for some reason, you'll hate that mic forever. Hope the piano is in good shape, if it sounds wonky, you might be able to use one at the local piano dealers place, give them a credit they love that. Hope this helps.

Cheers.
Click to expand...
Hi there!

Thank you so much for all your advice, I wasn't expecting that much! I'm sure that every single thing you wrote will be very useful and ultimately lead to better results.

I'm getting more and more excited about this project, this aspect of production is completely new to me and I know already that it's going to be a great experience down the line.

If anybody else wants to throw in some more advice, please feel free!

Alexis
 
Alexis, you’ve said nothing about the room in which the recording will take place. Is it someone’s living room? Is it a rehearsal hall? Is it an auditorium?

Given the mix of microphones you have, the space where you’ll be recording may play an important role in the sound you get.

Have you seen the room? Is it “live” or is it “dead?” Somewhere in between?
 
Seriously thought you had 2x Sanken COS11! Good suggestions mentioned already.

Without knowing the room...

Option 1
1) If you have two of the same lavs, use these to mic the piano in an AB, XY, ORTF setup. Pan L/R to taste.
2) SE300 hyper on upright bass. Pan accordingly (usually center).
3) MKH416 on violin. Pan according to arrangement.
4) Mix down to two-track stereo recording with piano as the base track.

Option 2 (Preferred)
1) Two of the same lavs hopefully, and mount these about 8'-10' in front of the players that are sitting in a semi-circle. From left-to-right seating position; Violin, Piano, Bass. Adjust the height and distance of lavs for taste, pan L/R. AB or ORTF setup.
2) MKH416 on violin.
3) SE300 hyper on Bass.
3) Piano lid fully open or lid completely off (depending on room).
4) Pan and mix all source down to a two-track stereo recording, starting with your lavs as the base track.
 
Hi,

I don't have any information on the room yet. My friend told me earlier that it would be determined by the piano's location (makes sense) but doesn't know yet where that would be. I will ask him again and see if he's got more information.

Alan Chang: I don't have 2 lavaliers of the same type unfortunately, otherwise I would have considered an AB recording (makes more sense than ORTF with omni mikes I think) of either the piano or the whole arrangement, just as you suggested.
I will talk to my friend and see if there's any budget for renting an extra cos11, which shouldn't cost much considering the retail price.
 
If money is really tight and there's no possibility of renting anything, go with Option 1. Just AB your piano and mix in the violin and bass on the spot.
 
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