ND64 filter kills some saturation in my image

ullanta said:
Did you try white balancing for each condition?
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I'm with you on this, I think that the WB is changing. Its not like the image is desaturating to my eye but more a color shift. The exposures don't change at all between shots either. I bet if it were white balanced between switching the ND filters, it would be fine and its good practice to do this anyway.

We are all taught the golden rule of white balancing for any change in light or camera settings. I generally WB for every individual shot to maintain color consistency. On set i'm forever white balancing.

Just watched it again and i'm adament now its not changing colors sats in any wave shape or form to the naked eye, my vector scope in Edius might see it differently but the a human eye its not changing.

1. In the 1st test shot take a look at the blue panel on the house on the upper left part. Its stays the same color blue in the before and after shot.
2. The post with the house number on it near the letterbox doesn't change in sat either.

Just focus on one particular item in the shots and check that way. I believe if you look at the overall shot it may appear its desaturating but I think not.
 
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The white balance definitely looks different on the last example. Look at the white around the window. With ND Filter is is crisp white, at 1/1000 exposure is has an off-white look to it.
 
Okay, I tested this, and there appears to be a very slight difference in the images. I brightly lit up a color chart, put it on auto-iris, 5600k preset, and 1/48 shutter with ND 1/64. Then I turned off the ND and adjusted the shutter speed until the exposure was the same as before; in this case it took 1/500.

Here's the comparison:
 
Me neither.
I have noticed this change in apparent saturation when switching from 1/8 nd to 1/64 nd and am at a loss for how to explain it. It is just there.
 
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wounderful test Barry
I would say there is not difference now.
the 1/500 shutter slightly looks brighter in color but I would say it's because there is more light. (1/1000 must of been too dark)
 
The strong ND definitely has a blue/purple color cast to it. It is supposed to be neutral, but it's a built-in filter, it's tough to gauge the quality. I use screw-on B&W ND filters most of the time. More consistent results.

Still, you can manually white balance to balance out any color cast the ND may have.

My biggest question is why are you trying to control exposure by changing the shutter speed? The motion cadence is going to be very unusual. What type of films are you making?

Exposure should be controlled via the iris and/or ND filters (built-in or screw-on). Shutter speed is a creative decision.
 
Joshua Provost said:
The strong ND definitely has a blue/purple color cast to it. It is supposed to be neutral, but it's a built-in filter, it's tough to gauge the quality. I use screw-on B&W ND filters most of the time. More consistent results.

Still, you can manually white balance to balance out any color cast the ND may have.

My biggest question is why are you trying to control exposure by changing the shutter speed? The motion cadence is going to be very unusual. What type of films are you making?

Exposure should be controlled via the iris and/or ND filters (built-in or screw-on). Shutter speed is a creative decision.
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I'm not saying that I control my exposure through the shutter speed. I'm just saying that shutter speed makes for more accurate colors than the ND filter does. I make mostly run and gun stuff...nature videos...whatever I feel like basically lol. Some charity stuff too.
 
blackdogs377 said:
I'm not saying that I control my exposure through the shutter speed. I'm just saying that shutter speed makes for more accurate colors than the ND filter does. I make mostly run and gun stuff...nature videos...whatever I feel like basically lol. Some charity stuff too.
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I agree, I think you have it right. Personally, I don't trust the internal ND very much.
 
This happens on my DVX as well with the internal ND's.

While it is annoying, unless you are doing a side by side test as has been done in this thread I think you would be hard pressed to tell the difference in any edited piece.
 
I use two Hoya circular polarizing filters instead of ND filters. This allows me accurate exposure every time allowing the ability to open up the iris anywhere I want. No matter what though...you have to white balance.
 
(This is where the experience of a multi-camera theatrical shooter comes in handy! I often have to match shots between two cameras in a situation where lighting conditions change frequently during continuous shots... and I can tell you, with changes in exposure, EVERYTHING changes - color balance, saturation, and of course tonal balance... the internal processing of these cameras is so complex (with color space reduction, gamma curves, matrices, mojo circuitry, etc) that everything gets intertwined... everything DOES NOT scale precisely with the overall amount of light hitting the sensor. I WISH I could white balance in these situations - it would make post matching both easier and more successful - but I can't. If you can... it will always solve a lot of apparent problems, not just in color balance, but in other aspects of the image quality.)
 
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