Native 24P/25p settings/problems discussion

rambooc1 said:
Simon this post in the research section may be of interest to you. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=2024703&postcount=18
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Thanks @rambooc1, that's actually the settings I've settled on, and so far, I've had no card speed errors, even with bright, detailed static shots. I'm going to keep at it, testing over the next few days as I have a vacation coming up soon in the Jasper/Lake Louise area of the Rockies and I'll be shooting lots of high detail static scenes.

I have some nice MF lenses (ZF 35mm f2, CV 50mmm f1.5, CV 75mm f2.5, CV 90mm f3.5), but not in the wides, so I'll have to use the kit lens as well as the 20mm f1.7 and the Oly 4/3 9-18mm (I have the 7-14mm but it has no filter threads). I need to get settings that will work consistently with all of these lenses.

Ciao,
 
simonclivehughes said:
Just to be sure I'm doing things right, here's my methodology:

1. Using 3.40d and a Panasonic 16GB Class 10 card.
2. I have 24PN checked
3. I then try different bitrate variables (using the suggested 'a', 'b' and 'c' settings for Video bitrate FHD, Overall bitrate and Limiting bitrate)
4. Update camera
5. Lens: 14-140 Panny lens
6. Cam locked down on tripod, focused on grass or other high detail areas

If this is correct, then I have a problem in that no setting of the above with 24PN on will not yield a card speed error within 20 secs.

If what I am doing is not correct, can someone point out my errors?

I'm just trying to get native 24P with a better bitrate while hot having to worry about the nature of the scene. I tend to shoot static shots quite a bit, so this is important. Comments as to how to achieve this are welcome.

Cheers,
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Make sure the grass or tree you are shooting is in bright sunlight with bright areas and shadowy areas and see if you can record for longer than 3 minutes without getting an error. That's my time limit test, anyway. If it passes 3 minutes, then I keep those settings.
 
Filmkid2003 said:
Make sure the grass or tree you are shooting is in bright sunlight with bright areas and shadowy areas and see if you can record for longer than 3 minutes without getting an error. That's my time limit test, anyway. If it passes 3 minutes, then I keep those settings.
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Interesting... I rarely shoot more than 20 or 30 seconds per clip, unless I'm going to speed up a shot (cloud movement etc). I can see that this would be a good test though.

Cheers,
 
Yeah, if you are going to be doing any timelapse video without an intervalometer with the GH13, like I will, you'll want to make sure your settings will work for long recording times.
 
Hahaha! Yeah, this was pre-9/11 when I was visiting there, too. I heard everyone in NYC was kind of nice to each other for awhile right after 9/11. But, now its probably back to good 'ol cynical NYC with an attitude! Fugedaboutit! Oh, and the reason the cop called me stupid for not knowing where the subway was, is because I had a bunch of NYU literature in my hands since I was checking out their film department (hence the train ride up there).
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In reality things have calmed down a bit. Less crime and murders and such. But this city is very expensive and getting worse. I try to be as nice as I can to others. Especially visitors. NYC is a bit complicated place to live in. But here we are for the ride. It is very good to film and take pictures in. Lots of places, landmarks, etc. I hope next time you visit you won't bump into nasty cops or people.
 
I hope next time you visit you won't bump into nasty cops or people.
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Hahaha! If there IS a next time! Naw, it was okay. The cop just bummed me out. I wasn't used to being spit on when asking someone for help. Especially a civil servant who is there to "serve and protect". Anyway, Times Square was cool. I grew up in Lancaster, PA where the Amish live so, NYC was a whole different world for me. But, now I live in Los Angeles so, if I were to visit NYC again, it would be a walk in the park after living in L.A. for 9 years. Hahaha!
 
PappasArts said:
I noticed one thing odd with VoltaicHD- it doesn't complete rendering on 24PN files. So if your converting 24PN.mts files it never completes( the progress % just keeps going going- i stopped it at 614%. Try it to verify.

Pappas
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For 24PN mts clips:

Try deselecting Export as 24p.. Select Faster Conversions (Experimental)

It should now complete 24PN files. Quicktime shows 23.98 fps.
 
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Vitaliy Kiselev said:
I suggest to try updated PTool 3.40d tester patches.
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I don't have the cam with me ATM, so if anybody wants to test this and post a raw MTS file somewhere I'll run it through StreamEye, as well as examine some low level stuff, like fps, etc. I think this patch is adjusting the "declared bitrate", which is always set to 16Mbit regardless of actual bitrates, amongst other things.

If I understand correctly, the following patches need to be checked in PTool:
I) Native Patch
II) AVCHD Bitrate - "A" Settings:
b) Video Bitrate FHD/SH - 22.000.000
c) Overall Bitrate - 24.000.000
d) Limiting Bitrate - 26.000.000
III) Try 1 take each for a) and b)
a) Preset Bitrate - 234
b) Preset Bitrate - 234 and Preset Bitrate 2 - 234
 
Since starting this thread, I have had very good luck shooting with native 24P on my GH1. I'm not doing anything professional -- just using it for personal/family use. Maybe there is a better forum for me than dvxuser, but I can't seem to find anything geared toward the 'casual GH13er'. Someone above mentioned shooting 24P handheld around NYC. I thought... yeah. I get that. I'm right there. The problem is, I don't see a lot of people sharing their settings as it relates to 24P, and some are necessarily hell-bent on having absolute 100% reliability.

Anyway, I've had 24P success using a class 6 Transcend card and C settings. I've shot probably an hour of footage without a single lockup, but the longest clips are just a few minutes each and most of them are under a minute. I am also handholding so there's almost always movement in the scene. While I've been pleased with the results, I want to experiement even more. I've since sent back my Transcend card and now have a Sandisk Extreme Class 10. I have no idea if 24P is possible with AVCHD at 720, allowing bitrate to go even higher. Also unsure if 24P is possible with MJPEG and whether that would be at 720 or 1080. Lastly, it would be nice to have a forum for discussing all this 24P stuff, especially as it relates to those who have the speedy panny/sandisk class 10 cards that can push the bitrate even higher. Is this the forum to do it in? Is this the thread to do it in? Or somewhere else? I don't want to annoy the professionals this site seems to be geared to.
 
Bad news! I just did some testing with my Nikon 50mm f1.8 prime lens attached to the GH13 and my bitrate settings of 54,64,74 with 24/60i that worked fine with the kit lens, caused the camera to have a write speed error with the Nikon lens! Static shot of a green leafy tree in bright sunlight on f22 and shutter speed of 1/50th. Back to the drawing board! I want settings that are stable for all lens types and all kinds of shots!
 
try the "C" settings. I shoot with a 50mm nikon on "C" settings with no problems on a Patriot LX card. What card are you using again?
 
Hey Svart. I'm using a Sandisk Extreme 16GB Class 10 card. I'm about to try the C settings with 24/60i right now. Its loading as I type. That's funny, because the card I was using before the Sandisk was a Patriot LX card. I don't know if I'm just seeing things but, it looks like I get mud in the dark areas (shady parts) of the tree I'm shooting. Is this normal for C settings with 24/60i?
 
Yup. 50,52,70 with 24/60i works fine with my Nikon 50mm f1.8 prime. Will test the Nikon 28mm f2.8 now. Wish me luck! Has anyone tried the C settings with 24/60i using Canon FD lenses with any success, including shooting high detailed static shots, like trees and grass in bright sunlight, for more that 3 minutes? I plan on buying a Canon FD to m4/3 adapter soon. That's why I'm asking.
 
Unable to use C settings with SanDisk Extreme III class 6

Unable to use C settings with SanDisk Extreme III class 6

Zooming in and out of my tree it failed consistently and immediately. Going to "B" settings its golden. Essentially the camera error says the SDHC can't keep up with writing to it. There likely are variances in SDHC cards even if the same model.

The "B" settings with 24p ticked had no issues even with the heaviest/quickest zoom and panning. :2vrolijk_08:


FYI, the "C" settings @ 1080 60i worked with no issues but I did notice more motion blur as compared to 24p. SO I'm sticking with 24p B settings for now.
 
KevinJ said:
Zooming in and out of my tree it failed consistently and immediately. Going to "B" settings its golden. Essentially the camera error says the SDHC can't keep up with writing to it. There likely are variances in SDHC cards even if the same model.

The "B" settings with 24p ticked had no issues even with the heaviest/quickest zoom and panning. :2vrolijk_08:


FYI, the "C" settings @ 1080 60i worked with no issues but I did notice more motion blur as compared to 24p. SO I'm sticking with 24p B settings for now.
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Sounds good. Although, for me, when I shot static tree footage with B settings, native 24p, and then shot the same exact static tree footage with C settings, 24/60i, side by side on my 47" LCD 1080 HD flat screen, the C settings 24/60i footage looked cleaner and sharper with less artifacts and more detail. I was able to see the individual veins on some leaves on the "C" settings 24/60i footage that I couldn't see on the "B" settings native 24p footage.

I'm sticking with "C" settings and 24/60i since I'll be editing with Premiere Pro CS5 which doesn't require transcoding and does the deinterlacing automatically. Just drop it into the AVCHD timeline and edit natively! :2vrolijk_08:

As far as motion blur goes, I'll take that over less detailed footage with crappy artifacts any day. Especially since I shoot most of my footage using a tripod and use slow pans. But each unto his own, right?


Oh, I forgot to mention. Naturally I would shoot with "C" settings in native 24p but, I get write speed errors with my Sandisk Extreme 16GB Class 10 card when I shoot the static foliage tree of death using a tripod. :(
 
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This morning I had a quick chance to use streameye to look at some of my native 24p clips that were giving me the pulsing I frame issues (always on static detailed scenes that will crash the camera if allowed to run too long). I managed to grab a few still screenshots in streameye from three different takes and put them together in a short quicktime movie. In the cases I've noticed the pulsing frame the P frame just before it is empty (actually it's just a repeat of the previous frame). The I frame then turns muddy and slowly recovers until the next one comes along if the scene stays static enough. I wish I had more shots but I only had a little time to copy the frames I was interested in. GOP were set to either 12 or 15:



The original is here, where you can read the info and see the full effects of the I frames that follow the blank P frame: http://vimeo.com/13197067
 
Filmkid2003 said:
Sounds good. Although, for me, when I shot static tree footage with B settings, native 24p, and then shot the same exact static tree footage with C settings, 24/60i, side by side on my 47" LCD 1080 HD flat screen, the C settings 24/60i footage looked cleaner and sharper with less artifacts and more detail. I was able to see the individual veins on some leaves on the "C" settings 24/60i footage that I couldn't see on the "B" settings native 24p footage.
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Very interesting.. Why no screen caps? A sample of this would be good to see.

Pappas
 
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