Native 24P/25p settings/problems discussion
- Thread starter NavinRJohnson
- Start date
Ian-T
Veteran
That's what I'm saying!!! I got mine over a week ago....so far this is the camera I wanted a year ago.
P. Harrill
Member
Isaac -
That's fantastic news that you're getting 24pN to work with the C settings. Obviously, part of it is the card you're using. Some of it could also be not touching the MJPEG and battery settings.
I'm curious can you tell us more about:
- the lens -- particularly whether it's Micro-4/3 or not (i.e., sending metadata)
- the subject being filmed
- camera movement in shot
- duration of shot(s) you've made
- possibly also the other settings you might have in your GH1 menus -- shooting Smooth? with what settings? etc.
I think these things could also be variables.
That's fantastic news that you're getting 24pN to work with the C settings. Obviously, part of it is the card you're using. Some of it could also be not touching the MJPEG and battery settings.
I'm curious can you tell us more about:
- the lens -- particularly whether it's Micro-4/3 or not (i.e., sending metadata)
- the subject being filmed
- camera movement in shot
- duration of shot(s) you've made
- possibly also the other settings you might have in your GH1 menus -- shooting Smooth? with what settings? etc.
I think these things could also be variables.
wanderer63
Active member
Hi
I am using these settings 40 | 46 | 50 and have shot over 40 minutes including 22 minutes of a tree blowing in the wind at 720p and various footage including trees at 1080p (25p native ticked).
Using 2 cards : Panasonic Gold Class 10 4 GB and Sandisk Ultra 15MB/s 4GB and have had no problems at all with the native 25p, in fact it plays back better on my PS3 than the interlaced - sometimes that was jumpy. See here for a sample http://www.vimeo.com/12792325
No GOP changes or MPeg changes etc.
Cheers
Paul
I am using these settings 40 | 46 | 50 and have shot over 40 minutes including 22 minutes of a tree blowing in the wind at 720p and various footage including trees at 1080p (25p native ticked).
Using 2 cards : Panasonic Gold Class 10 4 GB and Sandisk Ultra 15MB/s 4GB and have had no problems at all with the native 25p, in fact it plays back better on my PS3 than the interlaced - sometimes that was jumpy. See here for a sample http://www.vimeo.com/12792325
No GOP changes or MPeg changes etc.
Cheers
Paul
We've already figured out why Native 24p doesn't work:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=213908
It's NOT the card. It's the patch. There is something wrong with it. It does not work right. You can shoot all day long with it as long as something is moving in the frame. Once all movement stops and you try to capture a high detail static scene.. Card speed error.
John Caballero
Veteran
Barry Green, Kholi, Hunter, Pappas have you have trouble like this?
Not a single one. 24pN works fine for me. So shows the footage in the Footage forum, all shot native with plenty of movement
All you have to do is read the thread and see that MANY people including Pappas can reproduce the error as well.
Where pappas got the error:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=2024013&postcount=103
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=2024272&postcount=122
The chart you can use to do it:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/scn6oz
I can already tell where this is going but I ask you to give it a try. Also when you read through the thread Cbrandin and Lpowell did a lot of analysis and found the double I/P frames and the extremely high I frame size spikes.
My initial test report:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=2023958&postcount=91
Last edited:
I just put my camera on a tripod, and shot two minutes of the star chart of death at C settings. There was no movement in the frame and the camera didn't crash or give me any errors. At the end of two minutes I panned back and forth on the chart like a madman and it just kept recording. I have no issues right now with this patch.
I also shot a minute on tripod of a striped bedsheet, this was my aliasing and moire test for my 7D. This bedsheet murdered the 7D and brought out all sorts of rainbow junk. The camera didn't give me any errors and the footage is alias and moire free.
Ok, I know you're convinced it's the patch, but correct me if I'm wrong, you only used a Transcend card and didn't invest in either the Sandisk or Panasonic Gold Class 10?
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
Kholi, Svart is saying that as long as there IS movement there's no problem... he's saying when the frame goes still, that's when the cam locks up.
This is of interest to me because I had planned to get at least two (to three) of these... with one of them guaranteed shooting wides on sticks. That means the frame will be still as a photo at different times. I'd like to know that I can start the master shot and abandon that cam until the shot (probably interview) is over.
Ironically (with all the mud and jello fixing) it seems the hardest time for the cam to be reliable is when it's recording static scenery...(?!)
Isaac... my GH1 arrives tomorrow... but my Panasonic Gold cards don't arrive until Tuesday... I'll report back. Even before reading this thread I knew I wasn't going to take any chances on the cards! It seems that the Panasonic class 10 cards are a constant among those having no issues.
This is of interest to me because I had planned to get at least two (to three) of these... with one of them guaranteed shooting wides on sticks. That means the frame will be still as a photo at different times. I'd like to know that I can start the master shot and abandon that cam until the shot (probably interview) is over.
Ironically (with all the mud and jello fixing) it seems the hardest time for the cam to be reliable is when it's recording static scenery...(?!)
Isaac... my GH1 arrives tomorrow... but my Panasonic Gold cards don't arrive until Tuesday... I'll report back. Even before reading this thread I knew I wasn't going to take any chances on the cards! It seems that the Panasonic class 10 cards are a constant among those having no issues.
What's considered static? Literally just a field of grass with super high detail?
I mean I can try it, but I havent been having any odd issues.
Hey and actually, I did shoot plenty wide outside @ 12mm, lots of trees houses, etc and the clip is like 6 minutes long because we had the actor driving in and out of frame, parking the car on the side of the road.
Not at a single point did it freeze.
I mean I can try it, but I havent been having any odd issues.
Hey and actually, I did shoot plenty wide outside @ 12mm, lots of trees houses, etc and the clip is like 6 minutes long because we had the actor driving in and out of frame, parking the car on the side of the road.
Not at a single point did it freeze.
So this looks normal?
Compliments of Mr. Fanny:
"Streameye shows when static I frames peak at 353k and average out at 266k never dropping but when doing the swirl of death I frames float around 77k mark. P frames are the opposite with static lower at around 54k and moving 69k. I can't process MJPEG on Streameye but using Splash Lite i get bitrates of 30Mbps fluctuating on moving and 32Mpbs fairly constant on static with the chart.
So going by what I have seen static detailed shots are actually more taxing on card write speed than moving detailed shots. Explains why people are getting write error on static shots? Would this mean that shooting at "C" setting with 24/25fps patch results in a higher bitrate, possibly similar to that of shooting with the higher 60-62-70 without 24/25 fps patch but with less buffer?"
Or this?
Compliments of Cbrandin:
Or this?
Compliments of Mr. Fanny:
"Native Patch shows higher I frames at 740k then drops half way through with a max bitrate of 43Mbit. It also drops a big fat P frame turd nearing the end ..ha Stunk the whole room up."
Or this?
Compliments of Lpowell:
Kholi, did you hack the mjpeg too? Or leave that on the default settings?
It works for me, but I'm not using Transcend media or slower cards. I didn't want to take any chances. I'm also using Contax Zeiss lenses so there's no communication between lens and camera. I've pretty much given the camera as little to do as possible, just the 24P native hack and that's it. Have you tried dialing back the hacks and just doing the native hack with C settings or lower?
Left it out. Also didn't touch Audio or anything else.
Not a single thing but the AVCHD, Battery Unlock, and AVCHD settings.
I get 23.976 in premiere, native 24p and certainly no write/record issues. Are you guys saying a shot with ANY movement, even the slightest, can defeat the lockup?
I've got shots with very minimal movement, outside, on that 12mm just rolling while we try to get a shot right. No lock ups.
Not a single thing but the AVCHD, Battery Unlock, and AVCHD settings.
I get 23.976 in premiere, native 24p and certainly no write/record issues. Are you guys saying a shot with ANY movement, even the slightest, can defeat the lockup?
I've got shots with very minimal movement, outside, on that 12mm just rolling while we try to get a shot right. No lock ups.
John Caballero
Veteran
The question is how many people are getting these "lock ups" due to 24p Native patch "bug"? And what cards are they using. And what static scenes are they are shooting?
Static is like completely still. I first noticed it about a week after shooting with Native 24p enabled. I literally shot for a week before accidentally stumbling on this. I had the camera set on a tripod, recording some birds flying for some storyboards and I pointed the camera down towards the grass while I was doing something else for a minute. I came back and the camera had locked up with the "card speed error".
I pulled the battery, restarted the camera and swung the thing around like crazy while recording trying to get the thing to error. nothing happened.
I then did the same thing, I pointed the camera down towards the grass. before I could turn away, I got the card speed error.
I reset the camera, pointed it at the grass and I didn't get an error. I was like WTF! at this point.
Then the wind stopped blowing the grass around and I got the error immediately. At this point I knew it had to be related to detailed static scenes.
I then backed off the bitrate settings and it still failed.
I backed off some more.. Still failed.
I went all the way back to STOCK bitrates with Native 24p enabled. FAILED.
I then reverted back to NON-native 24p. PASS
I then upped the bitrates. PASS
I upped them again, beyond "C" settings. PASS
I knew right then it was the Native 24p.
I posted about it in the other thread and immediately people attacked my cards.
We went round and round until Pappas came up with the chart, was able to reproduce the failure with the chart and so was I.
Other folks tried the same tests after having been using Native 24p successfully for a while and they had the failure too.
Not much else I can say at this point. Many folks can reproduce the failures on different cameras with different cards. That says to me that the Native 24p is the only link between all of us who have reproduced the failures.
It's all in the thread Isaac. Lots of testing from myself and others with lots of results and data.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=213908
Here is my initial test report again:
Here is my exact sequence:
1. camera set to 1/50( also tested 60,125), 200 ISO(also tested 100, 250, 300, 640) FHD/HD(both give exactly the same errors in the same way).
2. camera set on tripod, focused at grass, NO movement, exposure set to 0.
3. class 6 and class 10 cards record normally with stock firmware. NO Native 24p.
4. class 6 and class 10 cards record normally with only "A" bitrate settings. NO Native 24p.
5. class 6 and class 10 cards record normally with only "B" settings. NO Native 24p.
6. class 6 and class 10 cards record normally with only "C" settings. NO Native 24p.
7. class 6 card FAILS and class 10 PASSES with these settings verifying that bitrate is truly higher than Class 6 card can handle. This was intentional and proves that the bitrate settings are truly working.
no native 24p
64M
72M
80M
8. Did not test above 80Mbit.
9. class 6 and class 10 cards PASS with stock firmware bitrate settings and Native 24p enabled while camera is moving.
10. class 6 and class 10 cards PASS with "A" settings and Native 24p enabled while camera is moving.
11. class 6 and class 10 cards PASS with "B" settings and Native 24p enabled while camera is moving.
12. class 6 and class 10 cards PASS with "C" settings and Native 24p enabled while camera is moving.
13. class 6 card fails and class 10 PASSES with these settings verifying that bitrate is truly higher than Class 6 card can handle. This was intentional proves that the bitrate settings are truly working.
native 24p enabled
64M
72M
80M
Camera IS moving
14. class 6 and class 10 cards FAIL with stock firmware bitrate settings and Native 24p enabled while camera is NOT moving.
15. class 6 and class 10 cards FAIL with "A" settings and Native 24p enabled while camera is NOT moving.
16. class 6 and class 10 cards FAIL with "B" settings and Native 24p enabled while camera is NOT moving.
17. class 6 and class 10 cards FAIL with "C" settings and Native 24p enabled while camera is NOT moving.
18. class 6 and 10 cards FAIL with these settings:
native 24p enabled
64M
72M
80M
Camera NOT moving
19. class 6 and class 10 cards FAIL with stock firmware bitrate settings with Native 24p enabled and GOP=12 while camera is NOT moving.
20. class 6 and class 10 cards FAIL with stock firmware bitrate settings with Native 24p enabled and GOP=13 while camera is NOT moving.
21. class 6 and class 10 cards FAIL with stock firmware bitrate settings with Native 24p enabled and GOP=14 while camera is NOT moving.
22. class 6 and class 10 cards FAIL with stock firmware bitrate settings with Native 24p enabled and GOP=15 while camera is NOT moving.
23. class 6 and class 10 cards FAIL with stock firmware bitrate settings with Native 24p enabled and GOP=16 while camera is NOT moving.
24. class 6 and class 10 cards FAIL with stock firmware bitrate settings with Native 24p enabled and GOP=17 while camera is NOT moving.
25. class 6 and class 10 cards FAIL with stock firmware bitrate settings with Native 24p enabled and GOP=18 while camera is NOT moving.
As you can see, it's related to the 24p patch and having a perfectly static scene. And YES, I understand that a Sandisk card would essentially make this work, but that's not the point. The point here is that bitrates clearly within the Class 6 and Class 10 card's ratings are NOT working with the 24p patch enabled and a static scene yet they DO work while the camera is moving. Even holding it by hand is enough to make it work.
I know, I've read it. This is your crusade.
I will shoot with these settings a few days and see if anything funny pops up. I am just hoping I am one of the chosen who can get away with the native patch.
I will shoot with these settings a few days and see if anything funny pops up. I am just hoping I am one of the chosen who can get away with the native patch.
Ha, yeah I suppose it is. I just feel like the patch is not stable yet a lot of people simply assume it is. I'm just trying to do my part to educate and possible keep people from having issues when they least expect it, like during a wedding or childbirth or something.. You know, something you can't simply stop everything to pop the battery out and put it back in!
Also, I'm not singling anybody out here but a lot of the informational threads are starting to get covered up with newer, less in-depth threads, that pretty much cover the same info but without the actual testing and reporting thing the whole hack sub-forum was intended to be. Too many folks are coming here and taking whatever information they find and asking the same questions over and over when their cameras have problems. I suppose I also feel like I have to point out that most of this stuff has already been covered. I know it's a losing battle but oh well.
Also, I'm not singling anybody out here but a lot of the informational threads are starting to get covered up with newer, less in-depth threads, that pretty much cover the same info but without the actual testing and reporting thing the whole hack sub-forum was intended to be. Too many folks are coming here and taking whatever information they find and asking the same questions over and over when their cameras have problems. I suppose I also feel like I have to point out that most of this stuff has already been covered. I know it's a losing battle but oh well.